Why Should Children Come First in Family Policy? Gay Marriage, Surrogacy, Divorce & Hookup Culture with Katy Faust | EP 527

TL;DR

Family policy should put children first because children have rights but cannot defend their interests in the systems that shape their families. Katy Faust argues that children have a right to relationships with their mother and father, while no adult has a right to a child. She applies this principle to marriage, surrogacy, education, and economic policy. Read on to understand the resulting conflicts between children’s needs and adult desires.

Transcript

this is a worldview that does not discriminate between single married gay straight fertile and infertile this is a world where if you're going to put children first all adults must conform to those fundamental rights let's wrestle that out that means that it is going to run up against all of our self-interest at some point I have a friend and he wa... Read More

Key Insights

• Children’s interests are easily overlooked because children cannot lobby, hire lawyers, submit legal briefs, speak at conferences, or choose the family structures created for them. Faust therefore sees independent advocacy for children as necessary in cultural, legal, and technological debates.
• Faust’s governing principle is that children’s rights to life and relationships with their mother and father should take priority over adult desires. She applies this standard to everyone, including single, married, gay, straight, fertile, and infertile adults.
• No adult has a right to a child, according to Faust, while every child has rights that adults must respect. This distinction underlies her objections to arrangements that intentionally separate children from a biological mother or father to fulfill adult wishes.
• Surrogacy raises a conflict between an adult’s desire to become a parent and a child’s interest in maintaining maternal and paternal connections. Faust opposes surrogacy regardless of the adults’ reasons, while Peterson tests that position through difficult questions about existence, infertility, and competing interests.
• Love is presented as necessary but insufficient for defining an ideal family. The discussion argues that affection alone does not replace the distinct relationships children have with a mother and father or settle questions about the ethical structure of family formation.
• Long-term, committed, monogamous, child-centered heterosexual marriage is defended as the family ideal in the conversation. Faust and Peterson connect that structure to stable child-rearing and argue that institutions should prioritize it when developing marriage, educational, and economic policy.
• Adult and child interests can align over the long term even when they conflict in the moment. Peterson distinguishes deeper self-interest from immediate hedonistic gratification, suggesting that sacrifice for children can support adult maturation, family stability, and broader social flourishing.
• Faust’s advocacy grew out of the marriage debate in Washington State and her perception that children’s interests were being neglected. Although she describes herself as highly agreeable and conflict-averse, she says perceived injustice toward children compelled her to enter public debate.

Questions & Answers

Q: Why should family policy put children first?

Katy Faust argues that children possess inalienable rights but are voiceless in the systems that shape their lives. She says family, marriage, educational, and economic policies should prioritize children because nothing harmful to children can ultimately be good for adults or society.

Q: What rights does Katy Faust say children have?

Faust says children have a right to life and to relationships with their mother and father. She contrasts those rights with adult desires, arguing that no adult has a right to obtain a child.

Q: Why does Katy Faust oppose surrogacy?

Faust opposes surrogacy regardless of the adults’ reasons because she believes it can force a child to sacrifice a relationship with a mother or father so adults can have what they want. Jordan Peterson challenges her position by asking whether it is better for a child created through surrogacy to exist than not to exist.

Q: Does Katy Faust apply her child-first standard to every type of adult?

Yes. She says the principle does not discriminate between single, married, gay, straight, fertile, and infertile adults. Under her framework, every adult must accommodate and sometimes sacrifice for children’s fundamental rights.

Q: Is love enough to define an ideal family?

The discussion treats love as necessary but insufficient for defining a family. Faust and Peterson argue that affection alone does not replace the distinct relationships children have with a mother and father or establish the best structure for raising them.

Q: What family structure does the discussion present as ideal for children?

The conversation presents long-term, committed, monogamous, child-centered heterosexual marriage as the ideal foundation for raising children successfully, joyfully, and stably. It also argues that institutions centered on children’s well-being should be foundational and prioritized.

Q: How can putting children first also benefit adults and society?

Peterson argues that adult and child interests can align over the long run when self-interest is understood more deeply than immediate hedonistic gratification. The discussion connects healthy child-centered marriages with healthy psyches, stable families, social flourishing, and national survival.

Q: What is Them Before Us?

Them Before Us is the children’s-rights nonprofit founded and led by Katy Faust. Its guiding idea is to put children before adults in all matters of marriage and family, especially when children’s rights conflict with adult desires.

Summary & Key Takeaways

• Katy Faust presents a child-centered framework for evaluating marriage and family policy. Because children cannot lobby, hire lawyers, submit legal briefs, or choose their family structures, she believes adults must defend their interests. Her central principle is that children’s rights should take priority when those rights conflict with adult desires.

• Faust argues that children have a right to their mother and father, while adults do not have a right to obtain a child. This position leads her to oppose surrogacy and question same-sex parenting arrangements. Peterson presses her on difficult cases, including whether creating a child can justify planned parental separation.

• The discussion connects family structure with personal and social flourishing. Faust and Peterson defend long-term, committed, monogamous, child-centered heterosexual marriage as the ideal environment for raising children. They distinguish immediate gratification from deeper self-interest and argue that adult sacrifice for children can ultimately benefit individuals, families, and society.