Joe Asks Derek, MPMD About Exposing Liver King's PED Use

TL;DR

Liver King, who claimed his massive physique came from eating raw liver, sunning his balls, and following ancestral tenets, was exposed as a steroid user and later admitted it in an apology video. Derek from More Plates More Dates argues no one can look that jacked naturally in their forties, and that the marketing story had too many extreme claims to be believable.

Transcript

The Joe Rogan Experience hey Derek you know how I got so jacked oh I followed the nine ancestral tenants oh that I heard that worked really well it's the best way yeah boy when I saw that video that you posted you actually sent me the video after I'd already seen it I I caught it like within three minutes of you posting it oh my God I saw it it jus... Read More

Key Insights

• Liver King publicly claimed his extreme muscularity came from natural ancestral practices like eating raw liver, sunning his testicles, and intense lifting, while privately insisting to people's faces that he was completely natural.
• Derek argues that looking that preposterously jacked in one's forties is not achievable naturally, and that the sheer extremeness of the marketing claims was a signal the story was fabricated.
• A physique can be exposed as enhanced through pattern recognition, but blood work can also verify claims, as when one older lifter tested clean shortly after being discussed publicly and looked like a genuinely hard-training natural athlete.
• Extreme muscle density and separation, especially abs that stay dramatically defined even when relaxed or sitting, are cited as red flags that raise questions about implants, etching, or heavy drug use.
• In his apology, Liver King admitted he has done and is currently on steroids, reversing his repeated public denials on podcasts where he said he never touched the stuff.
• Liver King framed his steroid use and messaging as a mission to help hurting people struggling with depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts, a justification many viewers found unconvincing given he lied about his methods.
• The danger of exposing fake naturals is over-extrapolation, where audiences conclude anyone with an impressive physique must be doping, which Derek says is false and harmful to genuinely natural athletes.
• A tiny fraction of hyper-responder individuals with exceptional genetics can build remarkable physiques naturally, with a bodybuilder who was natural and jacked into his thirties before turning to steroids given as an example.

Questions & Answers

Q: Who is Liver King and what did he claim made him so muscular?

Liver King is a heavily muscled personality who walked around shirtless with a big bushy beard, seen in places like Vegas with no shirt on. He claimed his physique came from following ancestral tenets: eating raw liver, laying down and sunning his testicles toward the sun, and lifting like a maniac. He publicly presented these natural practices as the entire reason for his extreme muscularity and leanness.

Q: Why did Derek believe Liver King was using steroids?

Derek argues there is no way someone can look that preposterously jacked in their forties naturally. He points to too many polar-extreme claims stacked into a viral marketing spin, which signaled the story was fabricated. Derek says most people could see through it, though many still believed Liver King because he would look them in the eye in private and blatantly insist he was completely natural, lying directly to their faces.

Q: Did Liver King admit to using steroids?

Yes. In an apology video played during the conversation, Liver King says he is making the video to apologize because he is embarrassed and ashamed for lying and misleading people. He admits that yes, he has done steroids and yes, he is currently on steroids, reversing his repeated public statements on podcasts where he insisted he never touched the stuff and was completely natural.

Q: How did Liver King justify his steroid use in the apology?

He framed it as complicated, saying he was rich and anonymous before social media and never expected this level of public exposure. He claimed his steroid use, guided by a hormone clinician, was an experiment to spread a message and bring awareness to people who are hurting with depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts, aiming to help them reach their highest and most dominant form. Derek and Joe found these justifications unconvincing.

Q: Why do Derek and Joe criticize Liver King's apology?

They argue that while he seemed to think he was simply saying sorry, he inserted self-serving comments, such as claiming he never expected to blow up, when the brand appeared meticulously planned from inception with specific social media following targets and timelines. Joe adds that Liver King misled depressed and suicidal people into thinking they could approach his physique by eating liver, setting them up to fail and feel worse about themselves.

Q: Can anyone actually get that jacked naturally?

Derek says an extremely tiny fraction of hyper-responder individuals with ridiculous genetics could get within striking distance of an elite physique naturally, though perhaps not exactly that physique. He warns against the opposite extreme, where people assume anyone with a good physique must be doping. That narrative is false and harmful, because some genuinely disciplined, hard-training people build impressive bodies using only legal supplements available at a vitamin store.

Q: What did Derek say about verifying whether someone is natural?

Derek notes that blood work can help confirm claims. He mentions an older, very fit lifter he had commented on who did blood work immediately after being discussed, and it checked out. Looking at that athlete, Derek got no steroid vibes, just a genuinely fit guy who trains hard and has likely been doing it for decades, showing what is realistically possible naturally versus Liver King's off-the-charts appearance.

Q: Are Liver King's abs real or cosmetically enhanced?

Derek personally thinks the abs themselves are legitimate muscle, possibly built from core-intensive training like cleaning and pressing kettlebells and walking with them overhead. The more controversial question is etching or localized cosmetic work on abdominal fat. However, since Liver King is extremely lean everywhere, Derek questions how much fat there would even be to target, and he doubts implants because those would be obvious, though he acknowledges good work could go unnoticed.

Summary

In this video, the hosts discuss the controversy surrounding the Liver King, a fitness influencer known for his extreme physique. They talk about his claims of achieving his physique through natural means such as sunning his genitals and consuming raw liver. However, it is revealed that he has been using steroids, prompting a public apology from the Liver King. The hosts analyze his apology and discuss the implications of his deception.

Questions & Answers

Q: Who is the Liver King?

The Liver King is a fitness influencer known for his extreme physique and unconventional methods for achieving it.

Q: How did the hosts react to the Liver King's claims?

The hosts were skeptical of the Liver King's claims, finding them preposterous and unlikely to be true.

Q: Did anyone believe the Liver King's claims?

Yes, some people, even big names in the fitness industry, believed the Liver King's claims because he insisted on their truthfulness in private conversations.

Q: Are there natural bodybuilders with extreme physiques?

While rare, there are individuals with exceptional genetic potential who can achieve impressive physiques naturally, although they may still utilize legal supplements.

Q: Did the hosts suspect the Liver King of using steroids?

Yes, the hosts suspected that the Liver King was using steroids due to his extraordinary physique.

Q: Is there speculation about the Liver King's abs being real?

Yes, there is speculation about the authenticity of the Liver King's abs, particularly regarding the possibility of having cosmetic work done for localized fat reduction.

Q: How does the Liver King's overall body composition support his claim of naturalness?

The Liver King's overall body composition, with his lean arms, chest, and physique, suggests that he is very lean, leaving little fat to manipulate in the abdominal area.

Q: Was the Liver King's apology well-received?

The Liver King's apology was met with criticism, as he made statements suggesting that he did not expect such exposure and that he had convinced himself that his deception was justifiable.

Q: Did the hosts question the Liver King's thought process?

Yes, the hosts expressed skepticism towards the Liver King's justifications and found them to be theatrical and corny.

Q: Did the Liver King's team believe his deception would go unnoticed?

It appears that the Liver King's team, which included a producer and a media team, failed to anticipate that his deception would be uncovered.

Takeaways

The video highlights the controversy surrounding the Liver King's claims of achieving his physique naturally, which is later revealed to be false. The hosts discuss their skepticism towards his claims and analyze his public apology, finding it insufficient and disingenuous. This incident highlights the importance of transparency and authenticity in the fitness industry, as well as the dangers of deception and misleading information.

Summary & Key Takeaways

• Liver King built a brand around claiming his enormous, lean physique came from ancestral living: eating raw liver, sunning his testicles, and relentless lifting, insisting to everyone including well-known names that he was natural. Derek from More Plates More Dates and Joe Rogan discuss why the story was never believable given how extreme both his body and his marketing claims were.

• Derek explains that pattern recognition and the improbability of that muscularity at his age pointed to drug use, while noting some lifters really are natural. He cites an older, very fit athlete who did blood work that checked out, and discusses whether Liver King's dramatic abs could be real muscle from core-heavy training or the result of cosmetic work.

• In a leaked apology, Liver King confessed to using steroids after years of denial, framing it as an experiment to spread a message to hurting and suicidal people. Derek criticizes the excuses embedded in the apology, arguing the brand was meticulously planned from the start and that lying about his methods misled the very people he claimed to help.