Bob Sutton: Scaling Up Excellence [Entire Talk]

TL;DR

Scaling excellence means spreading effective behaviors, beliefs, and practices without damaging what made them valuable. Organizations should develop the mindset appropriate to their work, hire and train deliberately, and know when to slow growth so they can accelerate later while preserving quality, accountability, and continuous improvement.

Transcript

Thank you for the round of applause. It's great to see all of you. This is my fourth Thought Leaders Event and it just still warms my heart to see Tom, because I still remember about - was that about 20 years ago when you first started calling me with all those crazy ideas? So where Tom sort of - I don't know where he came from, but one day he star... Read More

Key Insights

• Scaling is the process of spreading a pocket of excellence to additional places where it belongs without damaging the qualities that made it excellent in the first place. Sutton warns that anyone claiming to have solved every scaling problem should not be trusted.
• A mindset is the collection of behaviors and beliefs that people carry and use to propel scaling. Organizations that focus only on increasing their footprint or numerical size can undermine quality because the practices supporting excellence may not spread with the organization.
• Effective scaling requires knowing when to apply the brakes. Sutton and Rao argue that slowing down at the right moments can prepare an organization to accelerate later, because deliberate hiring, training, and cultural development protect the foundation needed for sustained growth.
• Deliberate hiring supported Google's early growth. Sutton recalls Larry Page saying in 2002 that venture capitalists, employees, and Stanford students were frustrated by the company's hiring pace, but the decision to concentrate on selecting the right people became important to its expansion.
• Facebook taught its mindset through practical experience before assigning newly hired engineers to permanent jobs. New engineers completed 12 or 13 small projects, and a strong first week could include making a visible code change that they could show to a parent.
• The correct mindset depends on the organization's work and strategic intent. Facebook's approach emphasized moving fast and breaking things, while a VMware executive rejected that principle for a unit producing software for nuclear submarines, where breaking things was inappropriate.
• Relentless restlessness is a common feature of effective organizational mindsets. Pixar director Brad Bird used the phrase to describe a persistent drive to improve, an attitude that Sutton says repeatedly put Bird in conflict with organizations that lacked the same commitment.
• Simple practices can produce valuable results when spread effectively. The 100,000 Lives Campaign encouraged measures such as handwashing by physicians and nurses and elevating beds for patients on respirators, and Rao's best estimate was that the interventions saved about 123,000 lives.

Questions & Answers

Q: What does scaling excellence mean in an organization?

Scaling excellence means taking a valuable practice, behavior, or pocket of strong performance and spreading it to more people or places without ruining what makes it effective. Sutton frames the central challenge as spreading goodness where it deserves to go while preserving its quality. The task therefore includes sustaining beliefs and behaviors, not merely increasing headcount, locations, or other visible measures of organizational size.

Q: Why is mindset important when scaling an organization?

Mindset matters because sustainable scaling depends on people carrying the behaviors and beliefs that created the original excellence. Sutton and Rao distinguish this from expanding only the organizational footprint. If leaders chase higher numbers without embedding the supporting mindset, growth can weaken the original strength. Effective organizations therefore help employees understand and practice the attitudes that fit the organization's purpose and work.

Q: Why should organizations sometimes slow down while scaling?

Organizations should slow down when rapid expansion threatens hiring quality, learning, or the transmission of important behaviors and beliefs. Sutton describes effective scaling as knowing where to apply the brakes so that faster acceleration becomes possible later. Google's early emphasis on hiring the right people illustrates this principle, even though venture capitalists, employees, and Stanford students reportedly wanted Larry Page to hire more quickly.

Q: How did Facebook introduce new engineers to its working mindset?

Facebook introduced new engineers to its mindset through direct work before placing them in permanent roles. New hires completed 12 or 13 small projects, allowing them to experience the company's move-fast approach rather than merely hearing about it. Chris Cox said a good first week included making a code change visible enough to show a mother or father, such as a new pull-down menu or improved picture resolution.

Q: Does the same scaling mindset work for every organization?

The same mindset does not work for every organization because suitable behaviors depend on its work, strategy, and financial needs. Sutton contrasts Facebook's emphasis on moving fast and breaking things with a VMware unit that developed software for nuclear submarines. A VMware executive rejected that approach for the unit because breaking things was unsuitable, showing that organizations must select a mindset appropriate to their risks and responsibilities.

Q: How did Procter & Gamble spread innovation across its businesses?

Procter & Gamble spread innovation through an approach Sutton and Rao describe as connect and cascade. Claudia Kotchka began with a small innovation group, a single product, and only a few people during A.G. Lafley's first period as chief executive. Over seven or eight years, she developed innovators and placed them within P&G businesses. The effort eventually reached about 30 different businesses inside the company.

Q: What did the 100,000 Lives Campaign demonstrate about scaling?

The 100,000 Lives Campaign demonstrated that a small team can spread simple, practical improvements across a much larger system. A nonprofit of about 100 people in Boston, supported by a campaign team of roughly 12 or 13, promoted practices such as handwashing and properly elevating beds for patients using respirators. Huggy Rao's best estimate was that these interventions saved about 123,000 lives.

Q: What is relentless restlessness in organizational scaling?

Relentless restlessness is the continuing determination to make work better rather than becoming satisfied with existing performance. Pixar director Brad Bird used the phrase when Sutton and Rao interviewed him in 2008. Sutton presents it as a recurring feature of effective mindsets across very different organizations. Bird also described being fired repeatedly after encountering workplaces, including earlier settings at Disney and The Simpsons, that lacked this drive.

Summary

This video is about scaling up excellence in organizations. The speaker discusses the challenges and strategies involved in spreading excellence to more places and people without losing the essence of what makes it great. He emphasizes the importance of mindset, accountability, and simplicity in the scaling process.

Questions & Answers

Q: What is the definition of scaling in this book?

Scaling, as defined in this book, is the process of spreading excellence from a small pocket or center to other areas and individuals within an organization.

Q: Why did the authors feel the need to talk to people knee-deep in the process of scaling?

Scaling is a complex topic that requires insight and feedback from those who have experienced the challenges of spreading excellence in practice. The authors wanted to gather real-world examples and lessons to inform their research and recommendations.

Q: What examples of scaling are mentioned in the video?

The video mentions several examples of scaling, including the growth of Pulse, the opening of new McDonald's stores in China, the spread of innovation within Procter & Gamble, and the success of the 100,000 Lives Campaign in improving medical care.

Q: How does the speaker explain the concept of accountability in scaling?

The speaker describes accountability as a feeling of ownership and responsibility for the organization's success. In organizations where accountability is present, individuals put pressure on each other to do the right thing and uphold the standards of excellence.

Q: What is the scaling principle mentioned regarding cognitive load?

The principle is to keep things Sesame Street simple, meaning that when scaling, it is important to minimize cognitive load by keeping procedures, processes, and systems as simple and easy to understand as possible.

Q: How does the speaker emphasize the importance of living a mindset instead of just talking about it?

The speaker gives examples of organizations like Facebook and JetBlue where the emphasis is on actively living out the desired mindset rather than simply talking about it. He explains that behavior, not just words, is what truly changes deep-seated beliefs.

Q: How does the video discuss the need for both local customization and standardization in scaling?

The video emphasizes the importance of the right balance between local customization and standardization in scaling efforts. It highlights examples like IKEA in China, where some customization was needed for success, but also warns about the dangers of over-customization and the replication trap.

Q: What is the cognitive load study mentioned in the video?

The study conducted by Bob Shriff showed that individuals with a higher cognitive load (trying to remember a seven-digit number) were more likely to eat more cake than those with a lower cognitive load (trying to remember a two-digit number). This highlights the impact of cognitive load on decision-making.

Q: What is the key lesson regarding complexity and hierarchy in scaling?

The key lesson is that as organizations grow, some level of complexity and hierarchy is inevitable. Although there is a need for simplicity, there is also a recognition that as systems and projects get bigger, more roles and processes are required to handle the complexity effectively.

Q: How does the video conclude in terms of scaling principles?

The video concludes by highlighting the importance of the scaling principles discussed, such as emotional engagement, living a mindset, simplicity, accountability, and the balance between customization and standardization. These principles can help guide organizations in their scaling efforts.

Takeaways

Scaling excellence requires more than just increasing numbers or expanding. It is important to cultivate a mindset that promotes accountability, simplicity, and emotional engagement. Organizations should focus on living the desired mindset instead of just talking about it. They should also find the right balance between customization and standardization, adapting to local needs while maintaining consistency. Lastly, it is important to consider cognitive load and keep processes and procedures as simple and manageable as possible. Through these principles, organizations can scale effectively while maintaining the essence of what makes them excellent.

Summary & Key Takeaways

• Scaling is the challenge of taking a pocket of excellence and spreading it to additional people or places without degrading it. Sutton and Huggy Rao developed their approach through a seven-year project combining case studies, academic literature, and repeated feedback from people directly involved in scaling organizations and practices.

• The examples span startups, established corporations, product innovation, and health care. Pulse struggled while growing from a handful of employees, P&G distributed innovators across about 30 businesses, and the 100,000 Lives Campaign spread simple hospital practices that Rao's analysis estimated helped save about 123,000 lives.

• Effective scaling requires more than increasing an organization's footprint or running up numerical targets. Leaders must spread the behaviors and beliefs that support excellence, choose a mindset suited to the organization's work, create accountability, and maintain what Pixar director Brad Bird called a relentless restlessness to improve continuously.