Cory Sandhagen on MMA Judging, Gloves, and Defensive Fighting

TL;DR

MMA judging is broken because near-submissions that don't finish score almost nothing, while damage leading up to a knockout counts heavily. Cory Sandhagen argues a fighter locked in a deep triangle twice reached 'nine out of ten' toward a finish, and that judges who have never trained can't read grappling's hidden, proprioceptive battles.

Transcript

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. Good to see you, brother. Good to see you, too. We were talking about golf and uh Jamie, who's a full-blown addict. What's up? What's up? Feel like everyone is now. So, you're saying Gage's fully hooked? Oh, fully hooked. It's crazy. He uh ... Read More

Key Insights

• MMA scoring counts damage leading toward a knockout but gives almost no credit for near-submissions, which Sandhagen calls a flaw since a fighter twice at 'nine' toward a finish clearly hurt his opponent.
• Judges who have never trained in grappling can't properly score it, a problem Rogan compares to judging a Chinese spelling bee without speaking Chinese; they only recognize who is on top.
• Grappling is proprioceptive and hard to appreciate without doing it, since much of it (weight distribution, positioning) is hidden to the eye, unlike striking where it's obvious who landed more.
• Trevor Gate makes the best MMA gloves ever made, with better foam, better shape, and better hand protection, and Rogan believes the UFC should have licensed or bought them years ago.
• The UFC spent significant time and money developing new gloves designed to close easier and reduce eye pokes, then abandoned them despite Sandhagen preferring them for his thin hands.
• Defensive skill wins fights in boxing and judges even reward it, but in MMA only offense scores, which frustrates fighters who admire movers like Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker.
• A defensive, puzzle-like style with feints and stance switches enhances longevity because the fighter avoids getting hit and forces opponents to constantly adjust and think.
• Conscientious training partners who don't blast each other save major wear, and Sandhagen values gloves like Gate's that let you spar hard without hurting a partner.

Questions & Answers

Q: Why does Cory Sandhagen think MMA judging is flawed?

Sandhagen argues that MMA scoring only rewards offense and damage leading toward a knockout, while giving almost no credit for near-submissions that don't finish. He points to the Oliveira versus Arman Sarukyan fight, saying Oliveira came close to finishing twice with a locked-in triangle. If ten is checkmate, being at nine twice is huge and should count, even though the opponent escaped and controlled from top.

Q: Why can't judges properly score grappling in MMA?

Rogan and Sandhagen say many judges have never trained, so they can't understand grappling's hidden, proprioceptive battles like weight distribution and positioning. Rogan compares it to judging a Chinese spelling bee without speaking Chinese. Judges only recognize obvious things like who is on top, missing near-submission attempts and the nuanced wrestling details that skilled fighters like Merab execute so well.

Q: What makes Trevor Gate's MMA gloves better than others?

According to Rogan and Sandhagen, Trevor Gate's Whitman-made gloves have better foam, a better shape, and better hand protection than anything else made. They are more curved and great to train in because you can hit a partner hard without hurting them. Rogan says the UFC should have licensed or bought them long ago instead of letting a deal fall apart over money.

Q: Why did the UFC abandon its new gloves?

The UFC spent significant time and money developing new gloves that were slightly curved, used different leather, and were designed to close easier to reduce eye pokes, but then threw them out. Sandhagen isn't fully sure why, though he suspects fighters with thicker hands complained. Some also said the new gloves weren't as hard as the old ones. He personally preferred them because they fit his thin hands perfectly.

Q: How does a defensive fighting style enhance longevity?

Sandhagen and Rogan explain that a defensive, puzzle-like style protects a fighter's health by minimizing hits taken, which saves miles off the body compared to a face-first brawler. Using many feints and stance switches forces opponents to constantly think and adjust on the fly. Rogan notes this style enhances longevity because the fighter isn't predictable and doesn't absorb the punishment that shortens careers.

Q: Why do fans and officials favor offense over defense in MMA?

Sandhagen says casual fans want more blood and offense, and the sport caters to them, which frustrates him. In boxing, winning the defensive battle matters and judges even score for it, and his favorite fighters were defensive movers like Mayweather, Pernell Whitaker, and Nonito Donaire. In MMA, only offense scores, so protecting yourself skillfully goes unrewarded, and Rogan hates when crowds boo grappling and officials stand fighters up.

Q: What did Sandhagen say about golf's addictive pull on athletes?

Sandhagen describes golf as consuming athletes he knows, saying one fighter did nothing but play golf for about a year between fights, playing roughly 260 days in a row, and his handicap kept improving dramatically. He notes that a completely dedicated, single-minded person will excel at whatever they focus on. He also recounts a celebrity who won a Ferrari for placing second at a Fanatics competition partly thanks to golf skill.

Q: Why is grappling harder to appreciate than striking?

Rogan explains that striking is easy to understand because you can clearly see who landed more powerful shots. Grappling is proprioceptive, meaning much of what happens, like where a fighter sits their weight and controls position, is hidden to the eye. Because of this, casual viewers often think it isn't cool, but Sandhagen says once you truly understand grappling and watch a specialist handle the nuanced details, it becomes amazing to watch.

Summary & Key Takeaways

• Cory Sandhagen and Joe Rogan open discussing golf's grip on athletes, noting a fighter who played roughly 260 days in a row between fights and drastically improved his handicap, and a celebrity who won a Ferrari for placing second at a Fanatics event.

• Much of the talk centers on gloves: Trevor Gate's Whitman-made gloves are praised as the best ever for foam, shape, and protection, while the UFC's new curved gloves, meant to reduce eye pokes and close easier, were developed then scrapped.

• Sandhagen critiques MMA scoring and judging, arguing near-submissions deserve credit, judges without training can't read grappling, and defensive puzzle-like styles that protect fighters are undervalued as fans and officials chase offense and blood.