How to Master Marketing Through Storytelling and Empathy by Henry Adaso by Kazuki Nakayashiki

How to Master Marketing Through Storytelling and Empathy by Henry Adaso

Kazuki Nakayashiki

Nov 25, 2024 5:16 PM

Summary

Introduction of Guest (00:08): Henry Adaso is introduced as an accomplished marketing leader and assistant vice president at the United Way of Greater Houston. He is noted for combining data with storytelling and has authored three insightful books.
Career Path (01:43): Henry shares his journey as an "accidental marketer," emphasizing his early passion for writing and storytelling, which transitioned from journalism to marketing over nearly two decades.
Differences in Marketing Strategies (04:39): He discusses the varying marketing strategies between global brands and lifestyle brands but underscores that the core principle remains people-centric, focusing on problem-solving.
Common Mistakes in Messaging (07:05): Henry identifies common pitfalls in brand messaging, notably the assumption that marketers understand their audience without empathy and the often misguided desire to reach broad audiences instead of focusing on specific, ideal customers.
Key Elements of Effective Marketing (19:01): He emphasizes the importance of answering three questions in marketing: What is it? Who is it for? And why should they care? This framework serves as the foundation for marketing tactics.
Insights on AI in Marketing (37:57): Henry discusses the impact of AI as a tool for brainstorming and critical thinking, stressing the need for human intervention to maintain originality in messaging.
Advice for Aspiring Marketers (58:31): He encourages aspiring writers to start with topics they are passionate about and writes down their ideas without the pressure of publication, emphasizing the importance of clarity in messaging.

Transcript

Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Glasp Talk. Today we are very excited to have Henry Adaso with us. So Henry is an accomplished marketing leader celebrated for his ability to combine data with storytelling to drive meaningful impact. He currently serves as the Assistant Vice President of Marketing and Communications at the United Way of Greater Houston and is President-Elect at AMA Houston.

So over his career, Henry has led award-winning campaigns, sharpened the strategies of leading brands and also the three insightful books, Content Mapping, The Art of Messaging, and The Gap. With expertise in digital transformation, demand generation, and strategic marketing, Henry's innovative approach has earned him numerous awards, such as the Texas Social Media Award and AMA Crystal Award. So today we will dive into Henry's dynamic journey, the art of impactful storytelling,

and the future of marketing. Thank you for joining Henry today. Thank you for that very kind and generous introduction, Kazuki, appreciate it, I'm glad to be here. Thank you. So first of all, your career journey has been incredibly diverse, from leading marketing at global brands to writing books and mentoring. And so can you tell us what inspired you to pursue like marketing and storytelling as a career path?

I actually consider myself an accidental marketer, I had no intention of becoming a marketer. When I was a kid in high school, I was absolutely obsessed with the written word and words and general. And so I thought I was going to become a publisher. And so I used to handwrite my own newsletters in high school and annoy all of my friends and make them read my newsletters. I just had a passion for words and storytelling early on.

But across the years in my early journalism career, I started to realize that there's an opportunity to tell bigger stories in marketing. And so the skills that I acquired as a journalist, which is where I started, were translatable to marketing. And so once I made that realization, I wanted to continue to tell stories, but on a bigger platform and to tell them for brands that I cared about, and that I was passionate about,

and they were doing work that I really enjoyed. And so that's when I made the transition to marketing. And I've been in marketing for almost two decades now. And so I truly enjoy being a marketer. Awesome. And but, you know, didn't you choose to become a journalist at the time you were at the college school? Yes. Yes. Yes. So I became a journalist early on in my career. As I said, I was always interested in words and I would consume magazines from front to

back. I would read the pages that nobody read, the masthead, all the advertisements in the magazines. I would read it from really literally from front to back. And so I became very interested in being part of that world, that journalism world. And I have a deep passion for music. And so that's where I started. I became a music journalist. And then that career took me all the way through to my current marketing career in the nonprofit

space. I have never had any two jobs that are similar. So that's that's been kind of the story of my career is that I find that if you have a strong foundation in in marketing and in storytelling, that you can always translate those skills to different kinds of industries and different kinds of work that you're truly passionate about, because at the heart of it, marketing really is about storytelling and amplifying the impact that we make in the world.

I see. Yeah, you mentioned about the music part and I saw you were like a curator at Apple in the past. And I want to touch on that later, but, you know, that's really interesting career path. By the way, so you've worked, you know, like a big, you know, brands, like names like Semex and also like, you know, as your first career local ware, right? So I'm curious, you know, what are the key differences between in, you know, the marketing

strategy when working for global manufacturing brand versus lifestyle branding? Do they have different framework, different method approach? And I was so curious about, you know, those how do they do marketing in like a big corporate company? They have different strategies and different audiences and sometimes different value proposition. But at the heart of it all, what they all have in common from manufacturing to music

is they're dealing with people. And there are certain core truths that people respond to and that resonate with people. And I think if you're able to harness those core truths about what we all have in common and in most cases, it's we're trying to solve a problem, right? Or we're trying to enhance a certain aspect of our life or our job or our business. And I think if you understand that at the end of the day, all marketing is people to

people marketing, then you can start to see the through line across all of those industries. And that's what I've been able to see in my career. So when I was at Semex, it was the product were primarily building materials. So cement, concrete aggregates and ad mixtures. So it's a different kind of product than what the product that I'm that I'm promoting now, which is it's a nonprofit. So it's really about helping our neighbors land on their feet and stay there.

So it's about possibility. It's about helping people achieve financial stability. It's a different kind of proposition. But at the heart of it all, we're still dealing with people. So when I was at Semex, my focus was on how do we deliver to our customers to help them solve the problems that they're trying to solve, whether it's building, building roads and infrastructure or buildings that help support our society or all of those things

are incredibly valuable. And now it's about how do we help families and individuals achieve financial stability. So at the end of it all, it's really all about people. And I think if we understand people, then we can become better marketers. I see. And then what are the huge mistakes that online brands make with, let's say, messaging? I think, you know, like, yeah, I'm curious about that part, what are the common pitfalls

or mistakes? I think the number one is assuming that we are our audience and that the things that resonate with us will resonate with the people that we are trying to reach. And it turns out that what often works is if we're able to put on the hat of empathy and try to understand the customer's position and their vantage point and their worldview and their motivations, then we can become more effective with our messaging.

And so that's a powerful lever that I think can take your messaging from not resonating to resonating. And so another one that I'll just share quickly is that oftentimes it's tempting to want to reach everyone or to want to reach as many people as possible. And while I understand the appeal of reaching as many people as possible, what often works is being very clear and very specific about who will be the ideal person that will find

meaning in what we have to offer. And then focusing on serving those people as well as we can. And that may be as small as starting with the 10 people that are most likely to find what we're offering to be meaningful and relevant to them. And then over delivering to them so that if they're happy, they're going to tell the others. And then the others are going to tell the others. And that's how our thing begins to spread.

Because the alternative is that we try to reach everyone and that's resource intensive. So our message has to be radically specific to the 1, 2 through 10 people that are our ideal target audience to use a marketing term. And then delivering our promise to those people so that they can then become our brand advocates. Is that the same for like a global consumer company, let's say Apple, Google, you know,

they have, they need to target absolutely, I think all the people. But do you think they should have the same strategy, like focus on 1 to 10 person? Sorry, I was just curious about that part. It's absolutely the same strategy for Apple. So what is Apple's value proposition? Think different. That's not for everyone. So they're saying, if you want to change the world and you want to think different, we are for you.

Here's our product. And then those people go and tell the others. And that's how their thing spreads. So for them, maybe it's not the first 10, because Apple is, as you mentioned, a global company, massive company. But for those of us that are not Apple, and we're trying to figure out how to get to where they are, that is absolutely the same. It's to think very... Henry Adaso, Ph.D.: Think very clearly about who is that one person that we want to reach and hold them in our minds view as we're creating our content as we're creating our messaging so that it helps not only clarify that this is for you, but it also humanizes the messaging for them.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: I see. Interesting. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Just curious, like, you know, how is like, you know, marketing, you know, campaign process or like generating marketing concept so Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: So how many people are related to, like, you know, marketing project. And so who Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: You know, come up with like a marketing concept.

And so who do you, who, you know, verifies or this is a writer like right target right people so to reach out and so Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And how to like evaluate all this message is like conveying your company's value proposal to, you know, right people. So how many people are like related to the marketing project or so how like how you know marketers works. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: All of us. So everyone in the involved in the business from the CEO. If you have one to the sales staff are all marketing touch points.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And and marketing is all of our jobs because guess what, we're always interacting with people who may not be part of our brand. And so we have to make sure that everyone who is part of the organization, part of the team. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.

: Is equipped with the right messaging to be consistent and be clear about your value proposition, because if you can do that consistently, then people start to recognize you for what you Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Present and what you offer to them. And then that's how you build trust and credibility. And so oftentimes we make the mistake of Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: siloing marketing. And so the market people go off to a corner and they do their marketing fancy things and they create all of that. But then nobody's using any of it. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.

: And so what we have to do is recognize that all the way from operations to to HR to sales to Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: To business development to to to it to everybody is a touch point and to make sure that everybody has access to your messaging. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: I see. Yeah, but so I think this is pretty common question of common situation. But so like, you know, Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: There are marketing team or sales team. So in the organization, you're in company. Right.

So, and there are software developers back of people Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: So they don't talk to each other or like, you know, engineers don't to talk to customers. So they know they don't know what they are selling what what is a like marketing. What is a key, you know, very proficient Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: So how do you address all the situation.

So is that like, you know, marketing persons or CEO or CM was like responsibility to like a spread, you know, marketing message in organization or Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Yeah, just like, you know, how do you address those stations. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: So the mark the messaging can originate from the marketing team. But what we often find that works best is if the most senior leadership is bought in. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Then you have a better chance of making sure that that message spreads across the organization. So whether that's a CEO or somebody else.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: But the marketing team or whether it's a team of one, which oftentimes that's the case that marketing team or marketing person. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Works in collaboration with the senior leadership to say, hey, here's what we're seeing from the data or the focus groups or Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Or your a B tests in terms of the messaging that resonates with our core audience and and and have that partnership with them.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: That then allows you to ensure that everybody within the organization has a chance to to participate to buy into the messaging as well. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And then it's about how do we make sure that we centralize our core messages so that it's accessible to the entire organization. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Because they're out there talking to people and you want to make sure that your messaging is clear and that they're speaking with confidence.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And that they're also critically being consistent across all those different touch points. I don't know if that answers your question. Okay. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Yeah, thanks. Okay, that's all. Yeah. Thank you. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And in your opinion, you know, now because like a like additional landscape is really crowded and in your opinion, what Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Makes a story comparing and enough to create meaningful impact you mentioned, like, you know, the, you know, that should be. We should understand focus on one person one to 10% and then try to, you know, like a share the something that can create a meaningful impact.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Like a share the something that can resonate with them. But, you know, if others, their competitors do the same thing. How can we send out then and what's your opinion around this. I mean, competition and you're standing out. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.

: We have to highlight the transformation that we create oftentimes it's tempting to lead with the features or benefits of our product service or organization and Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Those features are going to be things like the descriptive elements of the work that you do or the product that you're off the technical specs. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Those are the easiest thing to reach for because we know them instinctively, but it turns out that those features might appeal to 20% of your audience who are more technically minded. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.

: And so we know we don't engage the other 80% Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: But if we're able to harness and highlight the transformation we create meaning. How will my life be different after I interact with this product or this brand. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: That's a transformation. What will be different tomorrow if I buy this product that you're offering to me this widget that you're offering to me. How does it change my life. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: That's the thing that appeals to the heart, which is where we make the decisions. And so if we're going to differentiate ourselves in a crowded marketplace.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: We have to lead with the transformation that our product or service offers. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: I see. Yeah. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And you see, so I'm not a marketing person. I know some, you know, kind of framework in marketing, but, you know, do you have some Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Framework you use every day or your, your daily work, you know, in your, in your marketing process. And I know like a AIDA like, you know, awareness interest.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: For that aspect, you know, acquisition acquisition process. Do you have some kind of framework and I can understand you why people buy and how to like infuse that into your marketing and so on. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Because you're more of a marketer that you give yourself credit for, by the way. So let's just get that out of the way. The framework that I use is going to disappoint you because it's incredibly simple.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: It's these three questions whenever I'm engaged in the marketing environment. I always start with these three questions and they're ingrained in my in my head. And those three questions are Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: What is this, what am I offering. What's the, what's the thing that's that's an offer. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Who is it for Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Meaning, who is that one person that will be so grateful that I showed up with this thing this widget.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And why should they care. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And why should they care. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: That's it. What is it, who is it for and why should they care. Now I can give you a whole bunch of tactics on SEO and PPC I we could talk about marketing tactics for the next Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Hour or so, but everything else related to those tactics for me. They start with these three questions. If I can't answer those three questions.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Then I don't have a strong foundation for the tactics and so regardless and this this works, I find Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: More often than not, across the board. It works for me. It may not work for you, but this is what works for me is understanding who I'm serving what I'm offering them and why they should trust me. Why should they should care. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Why should they should care.

Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: See, yeah. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: That's a really simple, but really powerful. Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: And, and, you know, so, you know, like also I think it's related to your books, right, like a content mapping the art of, you know, messaging and the gap and Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: I was curious. Yeah. First of all, you know, do you have your favorite.

What's your favorite part, you know, I know, three, three books, but you know which one is your favorite Yuta Hashimoto, Ph.D.: Oh, that's a tough one because you're asking me, who's my favorite child. I, of course, I love all three of them, but the, the gap feels very personal for me because that was, it's not purely a marketing book. It's a meditation on how to close the gap between our dreams and our current reality, whether it's in business in life, goals that we may have, like writing a book.

And it's a summary of the lessons that I learned writing my first book and all of the mental obstacles I had to overcome to take that book to the finish line. So that's the one that feels the most like it has me in it. And so it's more personal. I've got personal stories in there. And so that's, it's a very personal book for me. But I love all three of them. They're, they're all very different. And, and I'd be curious to know which one is your favorite if you get a chance to read them as well.

Yeah, I love content mapping, you know, as a, you know, as a startup founder and doing startup, and we wanted to know like how to create, you know, like a good, like content or storytelling, you know, that resonates with, you know, audience. In that sense, you know, the art of messaging, I get that seven principles, also, you know, great and remarkable. And yeah, yeah. Yes. But yeah, but I know the gap, gap is, you know, about the dream and yeah, how hard it is. And yeah, but yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I find that everybody has a different favorite. So I've, I have people who've told me that the art of messaging is their favorite. The content mapping is my most popular book. And so lots of people have also said that that is their favorite. It's a very tactical book that breaks down very specific steps that we can take to increase engagement and sales using content and mapping them specifically to the customer, customer journey. And so a lot of people love that, that book for that reason.

And again, they're all very different. They have different personalities. And so it's always interesting to see which one resonates the most with people. I see. And at the same time, you know, I'm curious, you know, what, you know, because you are a book author, right? And I don't have many friends, you know, who wrote a book or written a book in the past. So I was always curious, you know, why did you decide to write a book? And then also, I know, you know, people write a book once,

but you know, you wrote three books. And why, you know, yeah, because you mentioned you love writing. And maybe, is that the reason behind the books? Yeah, I, book writing is, is torture. It really is. Every time I start writing a book, and I'm halfway and I'm like, why did I choose to do this again? But it's such a labor of love. So you really have to enjoy the process to do it three times.

As you said, I wrote my first book because I felt that I had a point of view on content marketing that was not being addressed. And so I noticed that there were books about buyer personas and books about marketing tactics. But there weren't any books about content mapping, specifically making sure that all of that good work that we were doing, that we're also being intentional about aligning that work with the right person at the right time. And so I saw that gap and that void, and I felt like I had a point of view.

And so I wanted to share that point of view. But on a more kind of personal note, I also wanted to go through the process of writing a book and learn about myself and how I could grow from that process of writing a book. And so I had no huge expectations of the book becoming a bestseller, and it did. It ended up selling lots and lots of copies. All of that surprised me. I was happy that that happened, but the goal for me was to, could I once share that perspective that I have, and hopefully it resonates with one

person and I would be happy with that, and also learn the process of putting together a project like a book and taking it across the finish line. So that's why I wrote the first one. And then the second one was an idea that came to me in a flash after I finished the first book. And I wrote it in three months because it was an idea that it was sort of like, I couldn't go a day without thinking about this idea.

And so it was always present in my mind and I wanted to get it out in case somebody needed to hear that perspective. And then the art of messaging came about because I saw the evolution of marketing as the internet became more democratized. And as we started to see the emergence of various marketing tactics that made it more competitive for businesses and for marketers, I felt like messaging was still the tool and still the marketing lever that is still a difference maker, regardless of what's going on around us, regardless

of how many AI platforms emerge, regardless of how SEO landscape evolves. The one tool that I believe marketers can still call upon is messaging. I believe it still has the ability to make a difference. And so I wanted to articulate the rules that I followed throughout my career to create compelling messages, whether it's when I worked as a journalist or as a content marketer and to share that with others.

And so that's what got me into the process of writing books. Every time I feel like I have a perspective and it's a perspective that needs to be discussed in a comprehensive manner, then I see that other people are asking questions about that topic or they have their gaps in the marketplace that could be filled. Then that's when I feel like, OK, this could be a book. And are you going to write another one in the future? A fourth book?

I'm not currently working on a book right now, but it's possible. Who knows? You have to stay tuned to see if that happens in the future. But no, no books in the works for now. I see. Any idea or desire in any specific topics or categories? Not yet? There is an idea that has been brewing in my mind probably for about seven years now. And it could end up becoming a book someday.

But yes, I always have a working draft of various ideas and sometimes I'll have books, various books in progress that don't necessarily become published. And so I have a few of those and there's one in particular that is very prominent to my mind and we'll see if it ends up becoming a book or not. I see. If it does, I will definitely reach out to both of you and say, hey, remember that time we talked about ideas? One of them is on its way to becoming a book.

Yes. And we can mention this moment, right? Yeah. Right. Breaking news right here. Okay. Yeah. And also I'm curious, I've never written any books in my life, so I'm curious about the book writing process. And it goes, it's totally different from writing blogs, right? So how was the process like? What tools did you use and how, because you can continuously edit the books and then so infinitely technically, but you need to decide, oh, this is a time to publish

or ready or ditch up editor. Yeah. I'm curious about that part of the process. So you've actually answered the question, which is the first thing I do when I get ready to write a book is to decide when I'm going to publish the book. Because as you mentioned, it's very easy to write a book forever and keep writing and keep editing. We can always find better ideas. And so if I can decide when I'm going to publish the book, then that puts me on the hook,

meaning I've made a commitment to myself that that's when I'm going to publish the book. So then what I do is I reverse engineer the process from that date. So if I say I'm going to publish my next book on January 5th, 2026, now I can work backwards and say, okay, when is the book draft due? When do I complete that very first, very rough draft? And then when is the final edit due? And then when do I have the type setting done? So I can set all these other deadlines

for the different steps in the process. And it's three main steps that I follow. It's the content creation step, and then it's the editing and it's the publishing. So content creation, drafting, and I usually go through multiple drafts and then editing. Same thing, I go through multiple rounds of edits and then publishing. So all the things that we do to publish the book, from type setting the book, to cover design, to actually putting the book.

out in the world. So that to me has worked the best is knowing when I'm going to publish, working backwards to create a schedule. Do I use editors? I do. I actually find that the book writing is a team effort. And so sometimes people assume that DIY means, you know, do it yourself means do it alone. It doesn't. You can absolutely have a team supporting you when you're publishing a book and I usually do. And so I have typically a team of editors.

There is the copy editor who edits the copy and sometimes also do line editing, which is to go line by line to edit the manuscript. And then I have a proofreader that follows the copy editor to ensure that there are no mistakes, no typos. They'll sometimes do things like sensitivity reading for me as well. So and I've used the same team across multiple books. And then I have a book cover design because book cover design is a I have a book cover designer who works specifically in that genre

because book cover design is its own genre. And so again, I've had the same book cover designer across all three books. And then I'll hire someone to do the type setting and the interior layout of the book and then and then we publish. So it's absolutely a team effort. I rely on other experts in their fields to support me and I just focus on the writing portion of it. I see.

But do you do you have like, you know, because in the editing process, you know, sometimes copy writers, you know, editors remove some part and did you have some section or chapter they you wanted to keep, but they remove on purpose. So, yeah, I'm curious about, you know, did you let it go or some part, you know, you let it go. That can happen sometimes if you have a really good editor. They can highlight ideas that are not your best ideas or ideas that could use some more clarification or maybe don't necessarily fit within the flow of the book.

They can highlight things like structural issues. I've also had in the past for some of my books, I've also had a structural editor. So that's another kind of editing. So the structural editor comes in very early in the process before you your your first draft is complete. So maybe you have a very, very rough first draft. And what they can do is they can look at the structure of the book and they can they can spot things that need to be moved around to create a better flow, to create a better

structure. You don't necessarily have to use one. But I have in the past to for the gap specifically, I hired someone who did what's called structural and developmental editing. So that happens very early in the in the process. So, yes, your editor is a collaborator and they can sometimes see things that you can't. And that's why they're so good at their job. And you have to keep an open mind and and not take their feedback personal because they're working in your in your best interest.

They want you to succeed with your book. And so it's always a collaboration with my editors. I see. Just curious, like how do you find like editors? Is that like, you know, past friends or something? Because and so, yeah, what they are doing. So like as a daily job, only editors, because, you know, you are like publishing books every two years or something. Yeah. But so, yeah, what they are doing. So besides so working with you.

Yeah. So I go to the online marketplace and that's where I find my editors. And there is a website called Freelancers. I think it's called the Editorial Freelance as Freelancers Association, EFA.org. I'll send you a link to that site. And it has all kinds of experts in the publishing field and beyond. So everything from editors to copy setters to proofreaders, copywriters, ghostwriters. And so that is a valuable source for for those who want to publish books.

You can find a lot of experts there. So that's I've used that in the past. I've also used other online marketplaces like Fiverr and reviewed the the portfolio of the people that I'm looking to work with extensively to see, not just to to value for quality, but to also value for alignment. And so and then once I find an editor or a designer that that I really like, I tend to stick with them and stick with my. So I've had the same team across my three books.

And so so those are the resources that I use to find freelancers. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I'll send you a link to the. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Actually, I found the website and see, yeah, EFA.org. And yeah, thanks for sharing. And then but at the same time nowadays, you know, like AI is trending stuff and, you know, people use AI to writing, editing or for any purpose, recording sometimes.

So it's not only books, but also marketing maybe. But how how do you think as you know, AI impacted or will impact on maybe writing books and also marketing the future? The emergence of AI is a it's a great tool. And I think we're only seeing the beginning of it. And it can certainly amplify our skill set and our talent and our efforts. And so marketers should be using AI if they're not. But I think before we. Adopt AI as a writing partner, I think we have to be very clear about our relationship with AI

and to define that relationship so that we're maximizing the the benefits of AI. And so to me, that relationship has to be similar to the relationship between a chef and the ingredients. So if you go to a Michelin star restaurant. No one goes to be delighted by the ingredients. They're going for the chef. And so what is that touch that you bring that makes it yours? How do we make sure that that that we retain that touch when we're using AI? So to me,

what that means is if you're entering prompts in AI as a collaboration partner, we also have to make sure that we continue to maintain human intervention when those when the output is generated, that we review it and we make sure that it it has your voice in it, that you're you're giving it enough context to make it yours, because otherwise everything starts to sound and look the same with in terms of your content.

And then it's difficult to differentiate from the marketplace. So it's making sure that your touch is retained. When using AI and and that you're also reviewing it, not just for accuracy and quality, but for originality. That totally makes sense. And do you use AI in your daily work or or have you used or, you know, if so, what tools, you know, what AI tools you use? Yeah, so I all three of my books were published before, you know, everybody knew that generative AI was going to take over much of content

marketing. So I didn't have the benefit of using them for my books. They were all written by me from scratch. But I do use AI now in my work and I use it primarily as a brainstorming partner. And I particularly like Claude AI. And and I and I'll I use it as a brainstorming partner to see around the edges. What else am I not thinking about with this topic? And and the other way that I use it is to help me scale the work that I'm already doing.

So I may put in inputs and say, here are the attributes of a persona. And here's their context. Here's what they're dealing with. And I'm trying to craft. Let's say a marketing campaign to appeal to that audience based on these attributes and the context. AI can then give me some ideas around the edges that I may not have thought about. And so then I can refine that and align it with my work to then take it across the finish line. So that's primarily how I use it.

I think it's one of the most underrated uses of AI is using AI for critical thinking to say here is not just give me five messages to appeal to my audience, but to say, here's the audience. What questions should I ask in order to create a campaign that will resonate with them? Right. Like going back one step to to understand the strategy, if you will, for appealing to that audience. And so now I can look at those questions and then review it, evaluate, OK, are these the right questions? Is there anything else

that I'm not thinking? and then you can move on to the next thing which may be, all right, what are those, what does this campaign need to look like, what channels would be appropriate, etc. And it's good for creator thinking, do you think? I think so. I think Claude is better at a lot of things than ChatGPT, including spotting inconsistencies, which is another thing that I might do is to say, here's a product that I'm putting together, help me identify the inconsistencies here.

So I think it's also really, really good at copywriting and good at helping you see around the edges. And also as a software engineer and I realize coding, in terms of coding, Claude can do better work for coding too. Right, right. It absolutely has those coding capabilities, as you mentioned, absolutely. So, now I want to know about your music side, and you were a curator at Apple for five years, five or six years, right?

And I was curious, what is curator, and also you mentioned that you improved retention, and we want to know the back story, you know, behind story about that part, if you can share. Sure, so as I mentioned at the top of the podcast, I used to be a music journalist, and I love music, I'm a hip hop head, and I was, I got a message many, many years ago on Facebook, and it was from someone that I had worked with in the past in the music industry,

and he mentioned to me that they were working on a project, they couldn't share the full name of the project at the time, I think there was a code name, and the message was very cryptic, and it was like, hey, we need you on this project, and it's Dr. Dre, he has this company called Beats Music, and we need curators, and so I jumped on the opportunity immediately, I was so honored to get that message, and so we started working on Beats Music,

which later became Apple Music, when Apple acquired Beats Electronics, so that was the origin story in terms of how I got involved with Apple Music, and essentially my job as a curator was similar to what a DJ might do, which is to curate a playlist, and so I curated lots and lots of playlists, if you've used Apple Music, or Spotify, or any of the other music streaming platforms, you'll notice that they have playlists that are already curated for you, and so they

might have things like summer barbecue playlist, or workout playlist, or insert your favorite artist name playlist, Kendrick Lamar Essentials, that sort of thing, and so I helped curate hundreds of those playlists for Apple Music, and it was such a blast, such a fun job, I couldn't believe I was getting paid to do that, because it's something I already enjoyed doing in my spare time, I still make playlists to this day, I used to make them when I was in high school,

so it was so much fun, but essentially all we were doing was creating playlists for music lovers like myself, and of course if people love the playlist, then they're more likely to use that particular streaming platform, which helps the platform increase their retention. I'm curious about the criteria, or your process of curating, because let's say you create a certain playlist, but how do you pick, I've never created a playlist

in my life, you know, oh okay, so same concept, or I'm gonna go by this first, and this second, and so on, and yeah, I'm curious about that. So I always approached it like a DJ, which is how do I start the playlist with a song that is going to engage you from the beginning, and if you think about it, it's also very similar to marketing, right, with marketing we have hooks that we use to engage an audience, to attract attention, and so I approach playlisting the same

way, and so I would always lead with the strongest song in the catalog, a song that even if you're not familiar with this artist, it's one that you might have heard, and so you go, oh yeah, I know that song, and then you'll keep listening, and then hopefully by listening, you'll discover other favorites down the line. So that was my approach, is start off with a banger, and then keep people engaged, and then maybe they discover other songs that they like.

Interesting. Very similar to marketing when you think about it. You can see like how many like songs or playlists were played, right, so and you can customize it later. Is that the process? Yeah, so I, you know, my job was as a curator, and we had editors who looked at the analytics, and they would, based on the analytics, they would come up with other playlisting ideas, playlisting ideas, and they might say, okay, we need XYZ artist playlists, and we need,

and maybe we have two playlists for that artist, but based on the engagement, then we might want to create additional playlists, because we're seeing that people love listening to this artist, or it's that time of the year, so what's, it's summertime, so we know people are going to want playlists for pool parties, or barbecue parties, or a summer workout to get into your summer body, or whatever you have, and so those analytics, and those trends, and seasonality will sometimes drive

the playlist approach, and it always, it makes sense. Again, just like the marketing, right, you have seasonality, you have things that are relevant at sometimes, and maybe less so at other times. It was the same thing in the music world, so that, yeah, we definitely use analytics to make some of those playlisting decisions. Were there any surprises to you? Oh, yeah, of course, you mentioned seasonality, you know, some trends happen, exist,

but, oh, but we, yeah, I know I created, I created this playlist, but I've never thought, you know, this goes, like, this mega hit, or something, does that happen? What was always illuminating, maybe not surprising, but illuminating for me was to, you know, we had a playlist series that is about influences, so an artist and their influences, and so it was always interesting to learn who influenced whom, and what people were influenced by, because it wasn't

always obvious in the music they were making, and this is something that I did a lot of research for, and I would always just be like, wow, so that was your influence, I had no idea, and then you start to kind of see traces of that influence, but you're also seeing a lot of that artist's personality in their music, so that was always interesting to learn. But can you, you know, if you curate a lot of, a lot of music, and can you tell, oh, this person, this artist

got inspiration from this music, this artist, you know, can you? You can, sometimes you can tell, yeah, you can tell, some influences are more obvious than others, and if you make enough playlists, you can usually pinpoint the DNA of an artist, and I also curated a playlist for iHeartRadio, which was more of a radio style playlist, so it's the one where, if you like Will Smith, you'll also like blah, blah, blah, it's that kind of curating, which is a little

bit different than the curating that I did for Apple Music, and so that was where it was even more interesting to see how people were influenced, because you're making a whole radio, basically a radio station for people who like a certain artist, and sometimes you're including artists that are influences on the one that you like, and so that, it was, sometimes it was obvious, but sometimes not so obvious.

Interesting, and how about you, you know, I'm curious about, you know, who, where do you get inspiration, and who influenced you, or, you know, yeah, how, do you follow someone, do you have favorite, like a artist, you know, music creator, or also marketer, you know, or someone, yeah, who's your mentor, because you're mentoring, but I ever know your influence, you know, and also inspiration, insights came from. I draw inspiration from a lot of different channels, and so I draw a lot of inspiration from music, sometimes when I'm writing

a book, I try to think of the book as, I try to think about the musicality of the book, if that makes any sense, and to think of the poet. Storytelling and Empathy by Henry Adaso Take things that are not obviously connected and connect them. Because what results is something new and fresh and always interesting and exciting to me. So when I was at Semex, we designed a hat that the inspiration for the hat

came from a Pharrell shoe that I owned. And so when I worked in music, I was gifted a pair of Pharrell sneakers and skateboard. And inside of the shoes, there were all these different body parts that connected to the feet. And it was super cool the way the illustration, the graphics, super really interesting. And so we took that idea and we put it on the hat for a cement company. And that hat was very popular, by the way.

People love that hat. And so I try to draw inspiration from fashion, from hip-hop culture, from music, from seemingly disparate places, and then put them together. We also did, when I was at Semex, we used to have a traditional holiday newsletter. And then one year, we flipped the script and we made it into a comic book. I loved comic books growing up. And so instead of, here's a newsletter, thank you for being a customer and happy holidays,

we made a, it was called Tales of Cement comic book with superheroes. And we did a whole superhero photo shoot. And it was super, super cool. Customers loved it. People were asking for copies after we sent them out. And so that's kind of where I draw inspiration from, things that are interesting to me, and I just try to connect them. Yeah, I love it. You're collecting things from other parts. Sorry, Kei, you were going to say something.

Yeah, so when you get inspiration or when you learn something, so whether you keep those ideas and learning, so knowledge, so do you have any like second brain not taking up anything? I probably have too many apps. I am a collector of ideas and I will store them wherever it's fastest for me to store them because I don't want the process to get in the way. And so I do have, sometimes I'll store them on drive.

I'll store the ideas on notes. If I see something, I'll just clip it and store it. If I see something that's interesting to me or that makes me stop and pay attention, I'll clip it, I'll collect it, and I'll save it because I want to understand why. Why did that resonate with me? Why did I open that email? Sometimes I'll see an email from somebody I don't know and I'll open it and I'll go, wait, why did I just open that email?

And so I'm always trying to figure out what the principle is behind the thing that interests me. And I'll collect them on an app, drive, notes. I don't think it matters what I use. I'll collect them as long as I can find my way back in to the thing that I collected. And sometimes they're physical. So I'll get a direct mail piece. And if it's interesting to me, I'll just save it. I'll put it on my desk. Or if I go somewhere and I see something

like an annual report that's really interesting, I'll save it, I'll bring it back to the office. I'll pass it out to my team. I'll take pictures. When I go out, sometimes I'll take pictures. I was at an event once and I saw a really interesting notebook and I took pictures of it. And then we came back and we adopted some of the ideas and we created our own version of that that everybody loved. And so I'm always keeping my eyes open.

Ideas are all around us. And I think as marketers and creators, I think we have to be constantly curious about what's around us, even if it's not related to the thing that we're doing or our industry. And then if you see something that makes you pay attention or something that resonates deeply for you, take a picture of it, clip it online, and then go back and say, why? What was it about that thing that made me pay attention?

I think I love it. Yeah, so marketers, creators, just pay attention to many things and understand why they are appealing. So like curious, interesting. But when you come up with an idea, so do you think so by yourself or do you discuss with other people? Or what is a typical way of coming up with ideas? Yeah, for example, marketing. Marketing concept message. So do you do it by yourself? Or what do you discuss with an external partner

or someone else? What's the process? How do you come up with it? Marketing is a team sport. So if there's an idea that resonates with me, I might take it to others and say, this is what I'm seeing. Are you seeing it the same way? And then they may be able to say, oh, I see it. I also see this. And then that takes it to the next level. So I love the collaboration piece of ideating. And I love building ideas as a team

as opposed to as an individual. I may start with the idea or a seed of an idea, but I love seeing other people go, and we can do it this way. And we can do it that way. That to me is what makes marketing so compelling to me. So I love collaborating on ideas. I don't feel like I need to have credit for the idea or that it must be my idea. I think it's usually better if there are other people in the room because they can see things

that you might not be able to see or they can see how to take your idea and implement it better than you might've expected. Oh, yeah. I love it. And I love you collect ideas too and share with others. And that's we really want to do at Glasp, by the way. So by the way, time is running up. So two things, one is advice. You already shared many advice and lessons, I think with us, but do you have any other advice

because our audience are aspiring founders, maybe marketers, content creators and writers. So if you can share some advice with them, and that'd be great. Yeah, the only thing I would just leave you with is, and thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It's been such an energizing conversation. The only thing I'll leave you with is to, as founders to be crystal clear about your messaging and because you always get opportunities to talk to people

about what you're working on and you have to be very clear so that they remember it because sometimes your messaging can be the difference. I see. Thank you. And any advice to aspiring marketers or book authors? Start where you are. So if you already have a topic that friends are always asking you about, your family is always asking you about, that could be a good topic for a book. Start with that, start where you are

and just start writing. Start writing it down and see where it goes. Don't put any pressure on yourself to publish it or to how to become a bestseller. Just start writing down the ideas. And sometimes what happens is when you start, you generate the momentum to keep going and then you can see where it could go. So start where you are. I see. Thank you. So and this is the last question. Since Glasp is a platform where people can share

what they're reading, learning as their digital legacy and we want to ask you this question. So what legacy or impact do you want to leave behind? I think it's just to be able to help other people turn on the light to if I can leave the room knowing that I helped someone see something in a different way that made their life better, then I feel like that is a good thing to do. Thank you and beautiful. And thank you for taking time today.

We really enjoyed the conversation and learned a lot from you. Thank you. Thank you. No, the honor is mine. Thank you so much for having me on your platform. I've just enjoyed our conversation. So thank you once again.

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How to Master Marketing Through Storytelling and Empathy by Henry Adaso

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