GlaspTalk_51_Nick by Kei

GlaspTalk_51_Nick

Kei

May 25, 2025 9:14 AM

Summary

Guest Introduction (00:05 - 01:00): Nick Babic, an experienced product designer and founder of UX Planet, discusses his background in UX design, accolades like the Red Dot Award for Mobile Design, and contributions to major design publications.
Career Path (01:29 - 03:16): Nick shares his journey from software development and testing to product management, ultimately discovering his passion for product design due to the direct impact he can have in shaping product specifications and user experiences.
Founding UX Planet (07:24 - 09:49): Nick explains his motivation to create UX Planet in 2016 to share practical design insights and resources. The community quickly grew as designers contributed articles addressing the lack of foundational design practices at the time.
Community Growth (10:33 - 12:22): The growth of UX Planet has been marked by a combination of viral articles and consistent contributions, making it a valuable resource for designers seeking practical advice.
Future of Design and AI Integration (32:02 - 34:23): Nick envisions that the roles of designers and engineers will merge, creating a new field of "design to code professionals," where AI assists in rapid prototyping and execution of design ideas.
Advice for Aspiring Designers (52:51 - 54:46): Nick encourages young professionals to leverage AI tools to enhance their skills, find inspiration across various media, and understand both design and engineering principles to thrive in a future where these fields increasingly overlap.
Legacy Vision (55:07): Nick expresses a desire to leave a lasting impact through valuable resources that help future generations improve their design skills, contributing to a better world.

Transcript

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Grasp Talk. Today, we are excited to have Nick Babic with us. Nick is a seasoned product designer and a user experience designer, and he has extensive experience in creating intuitive digital products and having led design teams for both B2B and B2C solutions. And he previously served as the principal UX designer at Brain Technologies, where he was instrumental in crafting the core product experience,

earning prestigious awards like the Red Dot Award for Best Mobile Design in 2022. And also, Nick is the founder and was the editor-in-chief at UX Planet, one of the largest UX community, and with over 345,000 active members. In addition to his work, Nick has contributed to renowned design publications like .NET Magazine, sharing insights on AI-powered design and multi-modal interfaces and the future of human-machine interaction. And today, we will

dive into Nick's design philosophy, his experience in building award-winning digital products, and his thoughts on the future of AI design. Thank you for joining, Nick, today. Thank you for your introduction. Thank you. So, yeah, first of all, we are a huge fan of you and, you know, what you have done. But, so, we are curious, you know, what, of course, you know, sparked your interest in product design

and the user experience? I always was curious about the things, how they build and how we can design something. I mean, how people design something. So, this is something that I actually was curious all of my life. And during my career, I was actually in software development, in software testing, and even in system administrator roles. And I'm trying to figure out what is the best pathway for me by trying different areas. And I found that being a product designer is the most interesting

and the most interesting, both from professional point of view and personal point of view, experience to me, because I have, like, direct impact on the design process and the way we shape things. So, not only, like, as a software developer, for example, when I already have a specification, I need to code it, but more like a person who actually collaborates with stakeholders to craft the specification. And I always find it really interesting that your ideas, your thoughts,

your input directly implemented in the product, in the final product. So, basically, people interact with your ideas, with your solutions. Yeah, totally. But at the same time, your career started as a product manager, right, at RingCentral, which is really interesting. Then you became a user, like, a designer, a carrier, and journalist, and a user, you know, like, experienced designers and so on. So, how has your career evolved over time? You mentioned

you were interested in design, but, you know, like, started as a product manager. It's great that you asked this question, because RingCentral is an amazing company. It's a company with, it's an enterprise company with a lot of people, and it's very technically focused. It's a company that prioritizes really good solutions, and it's focused on shipping really good products to market. And what the company, what I learned from RingCentral is the fact that all solutions

that we ship, they should be really fine-crafted, first of all, and reliable, too. So, it's possible, like, to visualize it as a pyramid of user needs, and functional and reliable are foundational layers in this pyramid. And RingCentral teached me that we need to make these foundational layers really strong, robust, because all other layers are built upon those two layers. So, and another thing that I was really excited about RingCentral, and I'm still, actually,

because to me, RingCentral is a really great company until this day. The company is a really great example of enterprise company. And the culture that we have, like, the enterprise company, it's different from the culture that we have in startups. So, to me, I was really fortunate that I had a chance to explore both enterprise companies, like RingCentral, and also startups, like Ring, because, I mean, this gave me the opportunity to see different sides of the coin

and figure out what side works best for me, I mean, where I feel more comfortable. Let's see. But how has the experience helped you, like, go to your design career, designer, like, a user experience designer career, and so on? In RingCentral, I was actually in the software development part of the process, so I was, like, the person who worked with things like specification, product requirements, and at that point of time, I figured out that a lot of things that we implement, we don't know,

like, the background, why these things were created, and the way they were created and shipped to us. So, I was always curious about what was the original idea behind these decisions, but because I work in the engineering part of the company, I was actually the person who has to implement, had to implement what our already designers and managers discussed, and I actually wanted to be the person who will be, who will participate in these discussions, but I didn't

have an opportunity for that, and that sparked my interest to moving to the design field, because I will have the opportunity to actually contribute my ideas and be the part of the system who will actually shape these requirements in the first place. I see, that totally makes sense, and yeah, sometimes, you know, designers and software engineers or product managers, they use different words and different concepts, have different

concepts and so on, and sometimes it's harder to communicate with each other, and yeah. Yeah, that's true. Then you started UXPlanet in 2016, right, and during, I think during, you were still the product manager at RingCentral, and why, why did you start UXPlanet? Could you share the founding story behind UXPlanet? Yeah, it was actually an interesting story. I was really passionate about practical side of design, and I wanted to share the information that I learned along the way with

other people, and that's how I started writing about it. So most of my stuff was focused on actual practical things, how to build something, how to do it right, best practices, and my goal was to share this with other people who struggle with this, because back in the day, back in 2016, it was the time when material design wasn't like the huge thing. I'm not sure if like material design was in the shape as it was, as it is right now. I think that it was like only started to get

the traction at that time, but yeah, the fact that design was quite at the state where a lot of different articles, a lot of different books was in the space, but there are all, there wasn't like solid foundation for design practices. And as a design people, we have to connect all the dots manually. So if you have to learn how to build something, for example, in tools like Sketch, you have to read different articles and then figure out what's your own approach for that,

and then like build it. And it was a time actually before we had UI component libraries and ability to use UI kits. So a lot of things would be built from the scratch. And again, that's why like connecting all the dots manually was really, really hard task. And I tried to like help our community to solve this problem. And honestly, these sparked interest in the community and the articles get a lot of interest and people start to request them. And they asked about

where is the place where I can read your articles? And that's how I started the community. And then suddenly other designers came to that community with different articles they want to contribute. And I worked as an editor, as a person who was like try to figure out whether this is something that should be published in a way it was like written or it required refinement to make it clear. Because my ultimate goal was to prioritize clarity and ensure that what is written

is valuable to community and helps solve. real problems. So at that time, UXPlanet was primarily focused on the practical design areas, how to build something, how to try it, how to test something, how to validate ideas, and that, yeah. I see. But it's been almost nine years, right, since you started the UXPlanet, and it's almost a decade. And now, UXPlanet has over around 350,000 active members and followers on Medium.

And how has the growth looked like? Let's say, for example, one article you published went viral, so that you gained so many followers or users, but is that more like an incremental, like a day-by-day, year-by-year? Yeah, it's actually more like steps. So it wasn't like incremental all the time, but it was like sparks that created a lot of attention in media, and people started to follow this publication because they found really interesting article or a series of articles,

because, like, in 2018, a lot of people, they really wanted to contribute a series of things that they want to share with the people. For example, practical recommendations, more like blog blocks or series of posts dedicated to a specific topic. And that's how it gained attention and attracted a lot of media attention. People started to visit it on a regular basis because they found this concept really valuable, and they found UXPlanet as a place that

shares really valuable content that helps them design better products. Yeah, interesting. And when you started publishing, did you try other platforms, not only Medium? I mean, why did you choose Medium? Ah, because it was a very hyped place at the beginning. I mean, in 2016, it gained a lot of media attention because the founders, they were trying to make it a really hip place, and they actually actively promote this platform. It was actually before they tried to monetize it,

so it was, like, the place that was open to everyone, that opened for community as, like, it feels like a really large magazine or platform with multiple magazines. But at the same time, it creates the perception of freedom, that what you contribute there will be shared across the internet, and it's published in a place that feels like a very liberal, sorry for the sake of a better word, place of the content. Now, I see the transition from, like,

a web-based blogging service, like such a Medium, to more, like, email-based, like, services, like a self-stack and so on. Have you considered about switching to other platforms in the process, or will you in the future? I actually try to find a better way of writing the publishing content all the time, and right now, at this point of time, I found that, to me, the short format of the articles, like the short form, not exactly articles, but the

posts work better. I try to feed them in the short format and publish in LinkedIn and Twitter, because I feel like it's also rooted in the concept of user attention span, because, I mean, in the middle of the previous decade, we have, like, the more people, I feel like, they was reading the articles, now more people are skimming the articles, they try to quickly scan the content in order to figure out what they find really valuable for them, and article as a format is not

exactly what many people are really interested in, so I'm trying to experiment with different formats at this time. I even try to record shorts, YouTube shorts, and it feels like this format of the shorts work good for the audience, because, I mean, in terms of attention, in terms of people who watch these videos, the short format videos, they find it really valuable. So, I mean, internet is changing all the time, and you cannot, like, stand still, you have to

experiment and try different formats, so to me, at this point of time, I think that, like, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube shorts are the best format. Yeah, interesting, yeah, and I watch your YouTube, so, yeah, you are posting, so, YouTube shorts and videos pretty often, right? Yeah, and so, this is a different question, but so many people try to start media, so, and start, you know, try to publish as much as possible, but at some point, so they're giving up, so posting,

and so the media is dead, but you explained it is not like that, so you've been continuing almost a decade, so what was the reason you could have been, you know, continuously posting it? I would say that the consistency is the most challenging, but very rewarding thing, to me, it's very hard to publish consistently, but at the same time, I push myself to do it, because I don't see any other option, because, I mean, the platform, based on my experience,

for example, both Twitter, and YouTube, and LinkedIn, they work in a similar manner, if you start posting something, and you don't give up, you will see the number of followers, number of media attention rise, it might not be rise dramatically, for example, you cannot, like, count that, if you will publish an article, not article, but a single post every day, at the end of the month, you will gain like 10,000 followers, it doesn't work that way,

but at the same time, you will get a consistent number of new followers, and who knows, maybe some of these followers will be your long-term fans, and yeah, to me, I think that the consistency and focus is really important, so consistent posting, and the topic you choose, I mean, you can choose a specific niche, for example, as for me, I choose the design, and I try to share the information only from the specific field, again, this is something that is

relevant to YouTube, but YouTube, it tracks the attention, and it tracks to your channel, and figure out that your audience appreciate your content or not, but by retention, and if retention is high, they start to show your content more often to the similar audience, and that's why I'm saying that, if you are doing the consistency, consistently, and the published content from the specific field, for example,

specific type of content, it will be rewarding for you, because the platform will see it, and reward you with better views. And when you're posting, creating the content, let's say on Medium, and also LinkedIn, or anywhere, but then do you have something in mind, always, or philosophy when you're creating posts, or let's say in someone's case, we follow these structures, and we try to put the actionable

advice all the way, or something like that, do you have that kind of format, structure, or philosophy when you are creating posts, or content? Yeah, actually, my philosophy is rooted in the practical things, so my content is not really entertaining, because what I'm trying to do is share practical things, how something works, or how we can build something, it's something that I believe in, because to me, design is all about

making stuff, not about talking about stuff, so talking about stuff, I mean, is also important, but I feel like design is more like a craft, rather than art, so when we experience tools, like Figma, for example, or Coursera AI right now, we are working with the tools that helps us make our ideas tangible, so my philosophy is to master the tools that help you make your ideas tangible, and create a solution, and regarding the format of the article, or video,

this is actually a really interesting question, because sometimes you have like a clear idea of what you want to share before you start recording a video, or writing an article, and sometimes you have like very broad ideas, of what you want to discuss or record a video about. And then suddenly when you try something, you start to get the shape of your video or the article. And at the end of the day, you can get rid of all the necessary things

that you created along the way and put it all together in a solid article or solid video. Yeah, that's interesting. And do you have anyone to discuss the topic? I actually actively search what people are looking for online trying to figure out what is like really, what people are really passionate about at this moment, because to be honest, most of the time when you share the topic that only you are interested in,

it might not be really interested or valuable to anyone else because like, for example, you are sharing the solution to the problem that you face, but it might not be the problem that everyone else face. So what I'm trying to do, I research the field. For example, right now, a lot of hype around AI and how we can use AI tools. So to me, I mean, I try to figure out what people are looking for and create an article about that or record a video.

And again, the platform also helped me with that because YouTube, if it sees that I record a video about a trending topic, the topic that is like very hyped at this point of time, it start to promote it naturally. So it start to share it with more people and more views, leads to better conversion and more followers. Yeah, it's, to me, it's easy. The biggest problem to me, it's actually to find time and find time to record a video or write a decent article

because it still takes a lot of time. I don't really like to publish half-baked products, half-baked articles or videos because to me, it's not really very valuable. It feels like very disrespecting to my audience. But recording a video, a solid video, or writing a solid article will require a lot of time. So yeah, the most challenging part in this process to me is to find this time. Thank you for taking the time for us, yeah.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, but also I'm always curious, like there are many designers who want to publish a post, but they are posting visual designs or this is my portfolio. But yeah, this is my impression, but designers usually don't share verbalize or sentence or logic behind it. So do you have any idea to crystallize your visual design to sentence or logic? So when you design or when you post an article or videos?

Well, if I understand you correctly, you mean like platforms like a Dribbble where we publish visuals and don't always explain how these visuals were created. I mean, the story behind it. I think honestly, it's okay. So to me, I don't see a problem in that. I really admire a lot of designers at Dribbble. So in the platform as a place where we publish content, it's a good place, I think, at least it was. I mean, right now it's trying to reinvent itself.

So I'm not sure where the Dribbble is going in the future, but based on my experience, like on that platform, I was like, I was at the Dribbble almost a decade. I don't publish a lot of there, but I follow a lot of really good designers. But at the same time, I totally understand your question because it's many times you don't have like the story behind the design, how it was created, what was like ideas,

what was the ideation process. To be honest, sometimes design speaks for itself. So sometimes when you see design, you immediately understand it and it feels very natural to you. So you don't need like text explanation. You don't need to read about it. You want to experience it, right? But sometimes when you think about like complex products, like for example, B2B solutions, where we design product for specific business.

And in that case, the story behind this design can be quite critical. So I would say that why designers not always do that, there are a lot of reasons for that. I mean, some designers don't really like to share the experience. Some designers are afraid of criticism that they've received because many times when you share your process, your ideation process, someone will tell you that, no, this is not the right way of doing this.

Listen, listen out. I have a different way of how I build product. And some people, they are really upset about it and they don't like to share their experience because they will face the criticism. And sometimes, unfortunately, a lot of things that we design are under NDA. So we cannot share the information without anyone else, without like legal penalties from the company. And this is like a huge problem still in this space

because like a lot of designers I know, they are brilliant designers. They cannot share design that they created for their companies because of the NDAs. Or the designer used AI so that they cannot explain the story, maybe. Nowadays, who knows? Yeah. And also when it comes to like designers or design process, I'm often curious about the inspiration where they get from. So usually, you know, I really admire designers' work, both UI, UX,

but I'm curious, how can I be, you know, one like them? So what kind of inspiration helped designers become designers? That's an excellent question. Yeah, that's an excellent question. I would say that the biggest inspiration that you can get is inspiration from the people you work with. So to me, I mean, when I work at Brain, it was a brilliant team and it's still a brilliant team. I mean, they are top-class designers, top-class engineers

and a brilliant CEO and founder, Jerry. So to me, it's a company that surrounds you with a great talent and inspire you to create something really extraordinary. And this is something that you should like have or if you will have it, you will like gift it with the people who surround you. Another area where you can get inspiration is actually any media or any other arts and crafts. For example, you can get inspiration from museums,

from art galleries, from movies, from music, and mix it, combine it in different proportions and build your design. For example, one of my great friends and brilliant designer, Gleb Kuznetsov, he is a musician by trade. He's like a very good musician, but he moved to the design field from music field and he took a lot of inspiration from music when he crafted his brilliant designs. So your background can enrich you.

So, I mean, even for me, I mean, my engineering background also helps me with design stuff so I can reuse some engineering ideas and the way things are built, both in code and the physical, like a physical space. I can reshape it and put it all together in a different mix and create something new and interesting. Yeah, I'm trying to get inspiration, you know, going to museum and so on and try to be exposed to more design and arts,

but I need more inspiration, I think, to become a better designer. But yeah, I will try my best. And so, but you know, you have software engineering background, right? And then do you think that helps you become a better designer or, you know, become UX designer or UI designer? Oh, that's another fantastic question. Thank you so much. Actually, it's a double-edged sword. It helps me with my design. But at the same time, when I design something,

I constantly think about the technical feasibility of something. And this is something that feels like a limitation or restriction or constraint that I face along the way. I cannot, like, I have to, like, all the time push myself to forget these technical constraints, especially when I try to design quite innovative product. But it's really hard to me because my engineering backgrounds, it tells me that you need to think.

think about technical feasibility. You need to think about technical feasibility. And yeah, it can be quite challenging. But at the same time, I find it really rewarding because I constantly think and I really care about engineering team. To me, developers are the best friends. And I really like to support them in what they do. I really like to help them with the design handoff, was helping them with the design specs

and other stuff that they need along the way. Because I see that what we shape in design space, it should be implemented. And if it's implemented right, it's done, it's fine. But if the developer face a problem along the way, some developers will get back to you and say, Nick, I will need your help with that. But some developers will solve this problem on their own and this solution might not be ideal from design point of view.

So as a designer, I think if you understand the pain that the developers face, understand the process they follow, it will be rewarding for you. And it actually happens to me. I have both background. I mean, I have a software engineering background and sometimes I need to design. And when I design, always I try to forget, but I always, oh, is it possible, technically possible? And always comes back to me and I, yeah.

Yeah, you'll totally get it. Yes, yes. So, and as you shared and posted on LinkedIn and other platforms, but nowadays we have AI. So AI can do both design and coding. And let's say Figma introduced Figma Make and Figma Sites so that when you ask something and Figma can design. And also we have Figma to code nowadays. So in that sense, let's say if we have like, you know, like a new college graduate and thinking about,

oh, should I become a software engineer or designer? Which would you recommend in the era of AI? Which technical background or experience helped them become better or, I don't know, designer or creator? This is really, really hard question. And I don't actually have a simple answer to that. To me, I feel like, and it's my own perspective. So what I'm trying to say here, I mean, in regards to where the industry is going,

it's my idea of that. I might be wrong here, but I feel like the field of design and field of engineering will blur into some new field such as design to code engineers. So maybe design to code designers. I'm not sure what will be the best name for this new role, but this is a person who will be capable of, who will understand design and will be able to quickly create really tangible solution. And what I mean by solution is like front end,

not backend, not necessarily backend, but the front end for, for example, the dashboard or the home screen of the app or maybe the app itself. So AI will help you move fast and move in the right direction. So you don't need to have like super solid front dev skills to do that. But at the same time, you should have a clear idea of what you want to build and you should have a great understanding of design principles that you will need to rely on.

But AI will help you all along the way. But again, you will need to understand what you want to build and be able to review it and tell AI what AI needs to fix in case if AI will generate something wrong or something not really perfect for your task at hand. So yeah, I think to me as a new graduate, I would say that you should learn design principles and design practices. Honestly, it's not that hard at that time

because you have a lot of resources that you can visit both like big companies like Apple and Google, they do an amazing job, creating really good documentation and design systems. So what you do, what you need to do is just read Apple Human Interface Guidelines on Material Designs and you will get like basic understanding of design principles that the company use that they craft the product and then experiment with AI tools

because this field, it's moving really fast and you need to jump to this train and be a part of that movement to understand what's going on and what will be the next step. And it will help you find the right direction because you will go with the train to the right path. Yes. Do you use, do you, have you incorporated AI into your workflow like a daily work, daily life? Yeah, actually I use AI quite a lot recently.

I started to use AI even for tasks like user research and research analysis, not only for actual design. And it's really helpful because it helps me move fast. Some tasks, they require more attention. Like for example, when I use AI for user research, I need to be a hundred percent sure that the output that the AI generates reliable. So I invest time in validating the output that it generates and figure out whether it's right or wrong

or where I need, or whether I need to additional clarification for some points that the AI provides. But when it comes to design, I incorporate design in design part. I can incorporate the AI in many parts from initial wireframing to actual design to code implementation. So I actually generate design for Figma in Figma. I transition Figma design to code using tools like Lovable and Anima. I also, when I need to like build some iOS screens,

I use tools like a Courser because it helps me to quickly prototype UI. But what I can tell you about the tools is that they are not perfect and they will still require a lot of attention from a human side. So it's not like a magic peel. I still have to manually refine something in case the AI didn't understand me properly. And sometimes I wonder, so to me at this step, one of the most challenging question is whether this is something,

whether I should use AI in the first place for the task at hand, or I can do it manually using my own skills and my hands, my brain. And at this step, this question is really challenging because sometimes I can get to the, jump to the conclusion, like the end final result by providing a couple of prompts to AI. But sometimes I feel like I would actually achieve the better results doing my work manually. So the most challenging part

of the human-computer interaction and the human-AI interaction, like right now to me at least, is to like find the cases where I want to use the AI and it will benefit me whether or when I should do it manually and it will be faster and more efficient. But that's my experience. I see, interesting. And you mentioned you use AI to user interview or user research. Is that true? Could you tell us how you use it? Yeah, not for example, actual user interviews.

So when I run interviews, I do it manually, like old fashioned manner. I meet with the person, but I prepare the questionary, like actual script and the questions that I will ask over the person, AI will help with that. So it's not like 100% built by AI, but I prompt the AI with the questions, the suggestions that I should ask. Then I refine this questionnaire and then I use it. And I also use AI to analyze the feedback

that I received during the interview, summarize some key points and highlight them in text. Because like one of the most challenging part in the user interview is the fact that you need to analyze the transcript and extract valuable insights from that transcript can be quite time consuming. AI can help you with that, but again, as a user research person, you have to validate what AI will share with you because AI at this point of time

is not really good and nuances. I actually found that it doesn't really good at tracking skepticism and irony. And sometimes when people try to share, like try to make fun statement, AI can be 100% serious and take that for granted. So the person might not mean that. hate something but still if they say that I hate it, AI will be like 100% sure that they didn't like the product. And that's just one example. So yeah, you should be like as a user researcher,

be very careful in validating the output and never rely on the output that AI will generate you alone without validation. I see. Yeah, AI cannot, how to say, if we only use transcript, texted transcript, and they cannot understand, let's say if I say something with AI quotes in the video, but AI cannot know if I AI quote it, right? So I think yeah, that totally makes sense. They sometimes take something seriously and they don't understand

if it's a joke or not. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Interesting. And also, what do you see the future of UX design in the next five to 10 years? Let's say nowadays we have AI, but that works okay a little bit, right? But in five, 10 years, I think I can't even imagine what's going on in five years, 10 years, but... It's actually, yeah, it's really hard to predict the future and I'm not really good at predicting future. To me, and actually not only

me, when OpenAI team, they released ChatGPT, some of the team, they thought that it will be gimmick. So no, not actual practical value for the tool, but suddenly this tool, ChatGPT, I mean, it was like huge spark that reshaped our industry. So to me, I think we are only at the beginning of this new wave of the AI and human interaction. And it's hard actually to predict with like 99% chance that it will go in that direction. So it's still quite unexplored territory to me.

I mean, the future. But I believe that naturally AI will help us with efficiency and it will lower the curve. So again, when I started the UX Planet, one of my goals was to lower the curve for someone who will enter the design space and share the practical information with them that will help this person design better products. But with AI, you don't need to read a lot of stuff and you don't need to have really good practical skills interacting

with the tools, like even Figma right now at this point of time. It gives you a lot of stuff that you can build with the AI. And I believe it will be better and better. So with every iteration of the tool, it will simply will help you do more with less effort and less time invested. What I can imagine is that it help people who want to start product, like startups, for example, one person startup, they will be able to make their ideas tangible without hiring anyone,

like designers, developers, they will do it on their own. At the same time, I think that large companies like industry companies, Meta, Google, they will still have people in this field specializing on specific domain, like design or development. But it's hard to predict the headcount. So I assume that they will cut the headcount, leaving only the essential number of employees that the company needs to deal with the tasks that they have

at hand. And again, it will help them improve their efficiency. Yeah, that's actually what I wanted to ask. Because now in the future, AI can do anything, and do we really need to hire designers or software engineers? And also at the time, how can we know, oh, this is the best or great or good designers or not good designers? How can we distinguish with AI? Well, the way AI works, most of the time, at least the way I see it, is it uses existing

knowledge base when it creates a solution. So what AI shines, where AI shines is creating the solution that are similar to solutions created before. For example, if you ask AI to create an Uber or DoorDash, there is a high chance that the app will do it. But if you ask AI to create something unusual, something innovative, like innovative design, in that case, the output that the AI will generate might not be the best because, again, humans might be more creative and

find a really interesting solution to existing problems. Again, because we have more signals that we can deal with. As we discussed before, our background, our inspiration, our joy to museums and cinemas can give us a lot of ideas that we can multiply, connect with each other, mix, and then create something unusual, something really interesting. So to me, this is the area where we will feel we are very strong, I mean, in comparison to AI.

But when it comes to routine stuff, such as creating the sign-in screen or the app from existing category of the apps, in that case, yeah, this is something that AI can help us with that. And in the context of the industry, what impact it will make, I think that it will dramatically change the life of the people who don't want to focus on innovative design or creating something new and just to create something that was created before them.

So, yeah, it's again, it's a kick to anyone who wants to move forward, I mean, the entire human race, to just create something new, something exciting, and AI will help you with that. I see. Yeah, thanks. Really insightful. And in that sense, when you hire a designer, so where do you see, and this is also, sorry, second question. So when you hire a designer for a not existing product or innovative product, which doesn't exist in the world, so how do you

see this designer has a potential to make a really innovative design? To me, I would say that I would want to talk with this person, understand how he or she thinks, what she likes. And then, so basically my process is to, I really think, see a designer as a designer. I see a designer as a person who can design products. So to me, the person with multiple interests, the person who really interesting as a person, as a human being, who is really passionate about something,

whether it's like music, art, and can use this information effectively, which is quite challenging, to be honest, to evaluate during the interview, because many people will be very bright and very talented. But when it comes to actually creating something new, they can face things like a creative blog. So they can, sometimes they will need more time to process ideas, to generate something really exciting, something innovative. But again, to me, I mean, start with the person

and understand how the person thinks, what they like, what they dislike, and yeah. I think, yeah, a person like you, right? Oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah. Then, so yeah, just more like, you know, dig into the question. So when you hire a designer, so what is the process? So do you do like, you know, live design or design interview, or do you see the importance in more like background experience, or as you mentioned, so

like, what is a piece, you know, people like? I would say that the most important, to me, I mean, at least the most important fact is what the, what problems this person will solve. For example, some people will focus on solving design problems in a way like conceptualizing something. So they don't need to have like, very good design skills, I mean, tangible skills, UI design skills, but they're really good at

conceptualizing things, creating something, something new, something that wasn't there. And they will be more like, in that case, I will focus on on the previous products and projects that this person was working on and whether these products were successful or not. And then if we are talking about actually the person who will be in charge of day-to-day operations, for example, we are hiring the person who

will be in charge of supporting the enterprise system, for example, and extending the capabilities and functionality. In that case, I will focus on the practical skills that the person will have, like actual skills using the UI design tools that the company uses. So, again, what I'm trying to say, long story short, is it all depends on the tasks that you hire design for. And the last thing that I also wanted to check is the fit, fit with the organization.

Because to me, I mean, the thing that I realized, and I realized that this was like realization to me, like eye-opening, because people from different backgrounds might not feel comfortable in a specific environment. For example, if you work as a, and really feel like you're a startup person, but then suddenly you have to transition to enterprise company, even if you have all skills, even if you have like passion to design products, you might not

feel good in that space, because it's not, it doesn't feel right to you, enterprise environment, for example. And again, the enterprise person, the person who like really like to work in enterprise company, they might not find them good in the startup world, simply because it doesn't feel right to them, these dynamics, the way the team solves problem. So, yeah, it's all about the tasks that you hire design person for, the skills that they have, whether

they have the right skills or not. And finally, the environment in which this person will work in comparison, in the context of the environment that this person came from, whether it's fit or not. I see. That makes sense. Yeah. And so you have a lot of experience in, from soft engineering designing and more AI tools. And so I already asked a little bit, but what advice would you give to aspiring designers or soft engineers or young users?

Yeah, that's a good question. Since we are, and I think we are early in the AI wave of our industry, to me, I mean, the best advice would be is to learn as much as you can about AI, try to incorporate it in your design process. Even if you don't have like a really solid process at this point of time, try to use it, try to find the tools that you like, because we have a lot of different tools. If you like coding skill, if you want to improve your coding skills,

you can try the tool like a cursor AI. If you want to improve your like general UI design skills, you can use the AI tools like a Figma native UI toolkit, or use lovable, for example, which is really great for the designers. And try to get the practical skills using these tools and integrate them in your process and get more inspiration. I mean, the more you watch movies, really good movies, the more you analyze how something is built, whether it's like the device

you have at your home, or the studio in a museum, how it was crafted, I mean. The better understanding you will have of that, the better skills you will have as designers, because you will be able to reuse it. And not only designers, actually, the engineering and designers just do different sides of the same coin. So if you flip the coin, you will be at the engineering side. If you flip it again, you will be design side. So yeah, that's up to you where part of the coin you would want to be.

Yeah, that's really insightful. Yeah. Thank you so much for the advice. And so this is the last question. And since Grasp is a platform where people can share what they are reading, learning as their digital legacy, we want to ask you this question. So what legacy or impact do you want to leave behind for future generations? I mean, as a person, I mean, as myself, oh boy, I didn't think about it, actually. So to me,

if the future generation will find articles and videos that I share, any resource actually that I share valuable, I will be super happy about it. So to me, it will mean that I contribute and I try to make this world a better place. Yeah, that's beautiful. And yeah, I resonate with that. Thank you. And yeah. And thank you. And thank you so much for joining today. Thank you for inviting me.

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