Okay. Uh, good morning, sir. I'm Ravinarayan Joshi. I'm a student of MPhil in educational leadership from Kathmandu University. So I'm conducting a research on, uh, topic like selection and use of AI tools, uh, to enhance teaching. Uh, a qualitative case study of private school leadership of Kathmandu Valley. Uh, the main purpose of my, uh, interview is to know your, uh... to get to know your experience, uh, opinions and perspectives regarding my topic.

Uh, so I would like to assure you that this, uh, interview is purely for academic and research purpose. The information you, you provide will be kept confidential and will only be used for the purpose of this research. Uh, your personal information and responses will not be shared with anyone outside the research purpose without, uh, appropriate permission. And with your permission, I would like to audio record this, uh, interview so that I can accurately, uh, transcribe,

uh, transcribe and analyze your response later. So this recording will be only used for academic research purpose and will be kept confidential. So may I have your, uh, permission to record this interview?

Yeah. Good morning, sir. Let's go ahead. I, I'm glad to, you know-

Mm-hmm

... have you here and have this conversation with you.

Okay.

So if you please begin.

Okay, sir. Thank you. So your participation in this, uh, interview is completely voluntary. Uh, you are free to answer, uh, or not answer any question. Uh, you may stop the interview at any time if you wish. If you need clarification about any questions, feel, uh, feel free to ask. So the interview will take approximately thirty minutes. Uh, so before we begin, so do you have any qu-questions to concern about the interview?

If you have any.

No, it's not like that. So you can proceed. So I've seen your question list beforehand-

Okay

... and I'm okay with all the things that you'll be discussing today.

Okay. So thank you, sir. Uh, so let's, uh, begin my interview.

Okay.

Before I begin, um, how long have you been in a, a leadership role at this school, and how many, uh, like, total years have been, uh, you have been working in educational leadership?

I have been into this, you know, like, educational leadership for more than two decades now. And if you talk about Epic Cyber School, I'm here for the past five years, and I've seen quite a lot of changes in this space. You know, from the time when computers were still relatively new and to where today it's people are working with AI. You know, it's a, it's a long journey.

Okay. So may I have your name and, uh, just because, uh-

Oh. Ma-- I am Pradip Nepal. I'm principal at Epic Cyber School currently. Uh, and I have, you know, been associated with the educational institution for more than twenty years now.

Okay, sir. Thank you. Now, how would you describe your school's overall vision, uh, when it comes to u- uh, to using new technologies like AI in teaching and learning?

If you talk about Epic Cyber School, we are quite open to technology. You know that we don't want to use technology simply because we are a modern school. Many times schools, you know, like, try to adopt technology to prove that they are a modern school and they have, you know, something different than the other school. But for us, the basic question is: Does it make teaching learning better? If it does, then we should explore it.

If it doesn't, then there's no point in using it. So at the same time, I'm very conscious of the human side of education. A teacher knowing a child, understanding why that child is struggling, encouraging the child and building a relationship with the child. These things, you know, are very important. AI should assist the teacher, not replace them.

Yes, sir.

That's what I believe.

Yes, sir. Thank you. So what main reasons are trends encourage your school leadership to explore and introduce AI tools for teachers?

Uh, I think, uh, if we talk about AI today, and if we forget what happened, you know, like past in two thousand and nineteen, COVID outbreak would not, you know, be relevant to discuss this. Because when we had the COVID outbreak in two thousand and nineteen suddenly, the, the physical classrooms were compared to be shifted to digital thing much. There were teachers who were struggling. You know, not everybody knew how to use computers, how to use the,

the, the online teaching platform. And it was a kind of revolution in the field of digital learning, digital teaching. And from that perspective, you know, gradually people started using computer and it grew up. It, it gradually came up. So it's not like, uh, somebody encouraged people to use AI or the tremendous development of, you know, like these technological things for students. Not like that. That's what I be- what I believe.

Yeah.

Because once the situation developed through COVID, people started, you know, following this digital thing much. And then we reached to this era-

Yeah

... this time, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that. So because of the situation, I think-

Yes

... we shifted towards, uh-

Yes

... the digitalization.

It was, it was the demand of the situation.

That's right, sir. Yeah.

Like we... In many other circumstances, we talk about it was demand of time, demand of situation-

That's it

... demand of story.

Yeah.

Similar kind of stuff for me because we never thought of, you know, like using computers in teaching. It was simply a kind of tool where people used to do their job-

Okay

... you know, like typing, finding something, you know. Now it's totally, you know, like a kind of daily requirement for a teacher now.

Yes, yes.

If you are not aware of AI things, uh, you go to classroom and you will be, you know, like, uh, directed to different prospect by the children because they are also exposed to same thing.

Okay. So, uh, how do you coordinate, uh, with your ICT teachers or IT department when discussing or choosing or setting up a new AI tools?

We discuss these things together. You know, the IT team can tell us the technical thing, how it should be done. Um, and, and we, we think about is it, uh, like accessible from the side of the school? Is it, uh, okay to send it to the teachers or to the children? So it's a kind of teamwork. It's not one person, you know, like sitting and, "Okay, this AI is required, this ICT is required." We don't do it that way.

We have a collaborative effort of doing things. We sit together, we discuss, we analyze, and then we take decisions.

Okay. So that means, uh, it's based on need analysis.

That's right.

Okay. Okay. So when management evaluates a new AI tools or softwares, what key factors do you look at? Like suppose you get-

I definitely look at its usefulness first, you know.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Then we consider ease of, uh, use. Is it like user-friendly? Cost reliability, can we afford it? Data privacy, how, how secure is it? That's also another important aspect because many a times we use AIs, we give them prompts and we give them information and we're not thinking of the other part which are, is our data safe out there. So that's another important, and student safety is also important part, I think.

So we also look whether the tool is helping the student think or simply giving them answers. That's another important aspect of using AI because this will help children to, you know, like, uh, develop their critical thinking. Not just get answer and submit it to their teachers or else assignment. So these are the things that we do when we look at AIs.

Okay. So what, uh, like what... Who takes part in the final decision in to adopt an AI tools? Is it driven mostly by management or ICT staff or classroom teachers like?

As I mentioned to you earlier, it's a, it's a collaborative thing, you know. It's a combination of all departments, maybe academic department, the IT, maybe the finance department. We sit together. We seek technical things from the IT department or academic requirement from the academic department and then the financial, you know, aspect from the finance. So we sit together and then we make decisions.

So you work in collaborative.

This is for example, you know, like, uh, let me, let me tell you an example. Recently we had one of the, the IT-based, you know, like software introduced to us through one of the companies here. And we had a discussion with them. I had a discussion with them first in the first round, and then I sat with the financial ex- director. I asked him like, "Is it okay if we go through this?" And side by side, we also, you know, like allow one of our teachers.

Maybe you must be knowing, Amit Sir was piloting one project there.

Yeah.

So it was a school service class, something like that, and he was trying to see the item-wise gap analysis, uh, thing, the, it using the AI. So he was given a few students trying to, you know, try thing, pilot things and-

Mm-hmm.

Based on those reports, okay, sir will produce a report. IT department will give us something. That's how we do it.

Okay. So how does the school manage the financial side of AI, such as buying paid subscription or upgrading devices or using the free tools like?

Mm. When we talk about these items, it must be very much practical.

Yeah.

So there are so many tools available now, and if we start subscribing everything, that can cost, the cost can become very high. So usually we look at free or trial versions first. If we find it okay and then, uh, we discuss amongst the team and then we purchase it.

I think school is already, uh, has buy like, uh, purchased that Google I think. Google suite.

The school has this, you know. We have the Google platform. We also have the IT. We also use paid version of ChatGPT, all.

ChatGPT.

We have all those things.

AI.

We also have this thing. What is this? Uh, Pythona.

Pythona.

Yeah. That's another AI that, you know, like, uh-

The coding? Is it called?

The coding and that also, you know, analyzes data.

AI data. Okay.

Data analyzer.

This, okay.

So our biometric analyzer uses that Python.

AI Python data analysis.

Because he produces us the report. We give our, you know, this, this, uh, maybe these are the things that we need to know.

AI.

That, that's how we do it.

Okay. So in your view, how familiar are ready were your teachers to adopt AI when they were first introduced?

Yeah. When we talk about this, we again need to go back to-

Uh, COVID

... COVID time. Uh, do you, do you think any of our teachers were ready for this thing?

Yeah, most of them I think they were facing problem. Um-

Yeah. They, they, they were never, they never imagined-

Imagined

... teaching could happen through the digital platform. People used to use computer for typing, printing or maybe drawing something else, but never thought of, you know, using this as a teaching aid.

Teaching aid.

We never thought it. So it was quite a challenging-

Mm.

.. bringing teachers to the mainstream of digital trick. And, uh, we had to have a lot of trainings to teachers and teaching them, and there were a lot of, lots of glitches that came up, you know, during this COVID period because almost everyone throughout the world, maybe they were using similar kind of software. So it was quite difficult. And slowly, gradually now teachers also, you know, like have developed kind of interest.

Maybe ... We can do this.

Yeah.

Yeah, but don't show you know the result.

Oh.

And so, so that's how people started adopting now.

So in the beginning, I think they were only Zoom. I think now we have so many-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... different.

That, that was Zoom. Zoom was free. 40 minutes call chain Zoom was free. That, and then Amazon thing came up. That was, uh, I forgot the name obviously.

Then Microsoft got Teams.

Yes, Microsoft got Teams.

Got Teams. Uh.

That's a Amazon thing. And that came that which was more reliable than Zoom. And then Google Classroom came. So many things are coming, you know. We used to use this, uh, Viber, WhatsApp. So we, we still are using but, but, uh, during COVID, I remember using Kaizala app.

Okay.

Uh, this is similar to WhatsApp and Viber.

Okay.

And it was connected to Teams, you know, that Kaizala that, that we used to, you know, communicate amongst the school members only.

Yes.

Only to the teachers and... So, so I never thought people... I never thought maybe I, I take it that way because when this, uh, thing came up, I remember, you know, like, uh- Investing almost 20 hours continuously generating the IDs for the login credentials to children, teacher and then orienting people. First phase I was so exhausted, you know, like, I was the one to lead and I remember त्यो, त्यो, त्यो, the codes and all to create

login credentials and to prepare tutorials and then give it out to the head of department first and then they designate it to the next round of people. It was quite tough. Now, now they have learned everything.

Yeah. Okay, so what specific step has the school leadership taken to bridge the gap and help teachers get comfortable connecting with, uh, and using AI in their daily lessons?

We have not pushed our teacher that way so far. We have been like suggesting them, this is where you can get, you know, like, uh, support in your teaching learning activities. If you prepare a plan, you can use this. If you are preparing your slides, you can use the other one. So we're not pushing them to, you know, like specifically go to certain AI tools, but we always encourage them. Okay, यो गर्नुभयो भने तपाईँलाई सोझो हुन्छ। For example,

I remember just last year even what, है, हामीले, हामीले ask the teachersलाई तपाईँले worksheet बनाउनुहोस्, यो lesson plan बनाउनुहोस् भन्दादेखि teacherहरू the thoughts were it's very tedious and बनाएको बनाई, बनाई, बनाई we used to have, you know, physical lesson plan earlier.

Lesson plan.

अनि digitalमा shift गर्ने भन्यो ರಾಜेंद्र दाहाल सर used to be with us, Educational Consulting Groupमा वहाँ काम गर्दथ्यो। And all the time सर came teacherहरूको गुनासो के हुन्थ्यो? स-लेख्दा लेख्दा हेर न यो दुईटा, तीनटा classroom पढाउनु पर्छ। It's very difficult. And then we thought of, you know, like giving them some idea. The Brics Teaching भन्ने एउटा tools छ।

Brics, ha.

Yeah. We introduced that like ल यसो गर न तँ। तपाईँहरूले twenty secondमा plan बनाइन्छ, twenty secondमा worksheet बनाइन्छ, twenty secondमा quiz बनाइन्छ। Why don't you do this? हैन? We have not never imposed anything, but we have always, you know, like, uh, created avenue to teachers. This is how you can do it. हामीले भनेर सल्लाह दिँदै सुझाव दिँदै। अनि हामी generally कसैलाई एउटै use गर्नुपर्छ भन्दा पनि यदि कुनै तर्क छ यदि that doesn't, you know, like, uh, making sense because you mostly comfortable with something else, the other

ones will not. Yeah. यस्तो खालको input पनि हामीले चल्याएका छौं।

Okay, so now what kind of hands-on training or workshop or practical support has school provided to help teachers build their AI skills?

We have tried our, you know, like best, I'd say. And we have a mixture of various formal training, informal training, practice sessions and as I told you earlier, the Brics Teaching बारेमा I personally guided teachers. And, and, and there's one interesting thing since you are student of Kathmandu University, you must be knowing, uh, Professor Manoj Sakya. He is one of our parents as well whose नानी यहीँ पढाउँछ सरको and he had a series of training with our teachers last year using AI.

तीन, three to four sessionsमा आएर schoolमा universityलाई नै हामीले request गरेर, एउटा communication गरेर, correspondence गरेर and they are sent sir to, you know, like train our teachers. अनि त्यो AI के छ, यो सब सम्बन्धमा राम्रो छ trainingहरू भाको थियो। In addition to that, uh, हाम्रो आफ्नो schoolको हामीसँग academic head लागेको हुन्छ। अहिले यहाँ अझै देख्न पाउनुभायो भने he is in Australia. He must be returning back this week.

Yeah.

अनि वहाँले पनि यो data driven literacy, data driven assessment यो कुराहरू पनि तीनटा, चारवटा session गर्नुभयो। Not only us, हामी त त्यो दिन अर्को पनि काम थियो। यहाँ बिहान सर आउनुभयो, हामीसँग त्यो session भयो and in the afternoon we thought यो यस्तो कुरा हामी only जाँदाखेरि हो भने we have to take it to larger group of people. अनि काठमाडौँ जिल्लासँग सम्बन्धित NPAB सुनको धुनहरू सर साथ छ। There were almost 80 school principals who got, you know, like benefited from

this training.

Right.

So हामीले अर्को schoolमा पनि orientation गर्यौं। That's how we've been doing it.

So I think, uh, last month also, I think, uh, Abhishek sir also did a training on based on like how to make it like for maths teacher.

Okay.

He used some AI tools. He introduced some AI tools and he told this is how you can use it भनेर वहाँले पनि एउटा training गर्नुभयो।

हाम्रो locally यहाँ भित्र हुने कुरा पनि छ। हामीसँग BioBot Expertहरू पनि केही भित्र भएको छ। We are aware हाम्रो teacherहरूलाई चैँ, uh, with the pace of time, uh, teachers will also move ahead and they should be well updated with the tools. To them तयार छौं सर।

Okay. Has the school, uh, set clear rules or guidelines for teachers and students regarding ethical AI use, privacy and homework integrity?

Um, regarding this, we are still developing our understanding and practices because technology is, you know, like changing so rapidly. अनि आज एउटा कुरा गर्दै हुन्छ भोलि बिहान उठ्दा अर्को कुरा आइसकेको हुन्छ। It's, it's really tough, you know, like keeping this to one single frame. Okay, this is how it should look like. This is how you should use it भन्ने एउटा hard and fast बनाउनुहुँदो पनि अलिकति timeसँगै चल्नुपर्ने गर्छ। But there are

something that's quite clear. Students should not simply take, uh, something generated by AI and present as their work. Teachers also need to be careful about putting the, the confidential information जो छ त्यो बारेमा राख्नुहुन्छ। Because many a times मैले कस्तो पनि भेट्टाएको छु म, I, I like to share. हामी result को remarks लेख्छौँ, हैन?

अँ।

Teacherहरू चैँ AI ले दिएको रहेछ फलानो फलानो विद्यार्थीले यस्तो यस्तो गर्नुहुन्छ, यस्तो गर्नुहुन्छ, यस्तो गर्नुहुन्छ। Prepare my remarks. नाम यो, fatherको नाम यो, date of birth यो, यि त classमा पढ्नुहुन्छ। See, look at this. So everything is going to AI, हैन?

Right.

So, so teacher also should be careful about putting their conversation safe. Most importantly चैँ गर्नुपर्ने कुरा I want our teachers to understand that AI output is not automatically correct. त्यहाँनिर तपाईं ChatGPT नै use गर्नुभयो रैछ हो, अलिकति ध्यान दिएर हेर्नुहोस् त blur letterमा तल के लेखेर राखेको छ। Have you ever noticed that?

No.

ChatGPT can make mistakes पनि-

Mistakes, yeah

...त्यस्तो लेखिरखेको छ। So, so सबैजनालाई हामी त्यही भन्दै आउँछौँ, हैन। अब बुझ्नु पऱ्यो, बुझेर चल्नु पऱ्यो and then data privacyको बारेमा अलिकति careful हुनुपर्ने कुरा पनि पढाएका छौं।

Okay, that means you need to-- you should not, uh, share the personal details.

That's why, that's why.

That's cool, uh...

तपाईँ, म आफ्नो personal experience हो के। म चैँ कहिले कहिले अब यहाँ मलाई पुरुषोथ हुन्छ अनि धेरै कुराहरू दिमागमा बसिराखेको हुन्छ अनि बाहिर explore गर्न भ्यादैन नि त।

अँ।

अनि यही राखिन्छ नि उले त्यसैलाई सोधिन्छ नि त, हैन? मैले अस्ति मेरो घरको washing machine all of sudden चैँ त्यो powerै लिएन के।

अँ।

अनि मैले यसको तुरुन्तै एउटा त्यो mechanic खोज्ने-

Mechanic

...भयो भने चैँ सोध्दा मैले के भन्दो रहेछ। मैले यस्तो यस्तो भयो मेरो washing machine। उले मलाई विस्तारै के भयो, उसको model ra, कस्तो हाल्छ-

हजुर, अँ।

...सबै कुरो त data लगिसक्यो त।

अँ।

मले एउटा pointमा गएँ चैँ यस कुरा गरेर फाइदा छ कि भनेर भन्दै गर्दा म धेरै सेफ भएँ।

Okay.

And it's so, so नजानिँदा तरिकाहरूले हामी dataलाई लाइराखेका छौं making very much vulnerable. Teacherहरूलाई पनि यति हाल्दिए remarks generate गर्दिन्छ, यति हाल्दियो बच्चाले काम-