Building Hardware and Taking on the Phone Giants with Carl Pei | Summary and Q&A

April 6, 2023
The a16z Podcast
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Building Hardware and Taking on the Phone Giants with Carl Pei


Carl Pei, founder of Nothing, discusses the challenges of building hardware, the need to recreate the magic in technology, and his vision for the future of the industry.

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Key Insights

  • 🍳 Breaking into the smartphone market is extremely challenging due to the dominance of a few established players and the complexity of building hardware.
  • 🎨 Nothing differentiated itself through design, focusing on creating a coherent design language across all products.
  • 😌 The future of the smartphone industry lies in software design differentiation, improving the user experience, and building interconnected ecosystems of devices.
  • 💪 Building strong relationships with suppliers and managing cash flow are significant challenges for hardware startups.
  • ❓ Community involvement and contribution are essential for Nothing, with a focus on creating a sense of ownership and collaboration among stakeholders.
  • 💪 Carl Pei believes that technology, particularly AI, has the potential to create exciting and innovative experiences, but startups need to focus on survival and building a strong foundation before exploring new frontiers.


there's a lot of people like us who are tech fans out there and who remember being Apple Fanboys and fangirls and now just feeling like the magic is lost and just wanting to recreate the magic hardware company building on hard mode majoring a global pandemic and markets that's harder than hard and trying to penetrate the phone market in particular ... Read More

Questions & Answers

Q: Why is it so difficult for startups to break into the smartphone market?

The smartphone market is dominated by a few big players who have accumulated market share over the years. Startups often struggle to compete with these established companies due to limited resources and the challenge of building a supply chain.

Q: What made you decide to enter the smartphone market again with Nothing?

Pei felt a sense of responsibility to challenge the incumbents and wanted to bring back the sense of excitement and innovation in the industry. He gathered a team of experienced professionals and wanted to create something different and fun.

Q: How did Nothing differentiate itself in the crowded earbud market?

Nothing focused on creating a coherent design language across all its products, taking inspiration from various creative fields. They started with earbuds to prove their abilities in design, manufacturing, and sales, and plan to use their credentials to expand into smartphones and other devices.

Q: What is the future of the smartphone and technology according to Nothing?

Nothing aims to push the boundaries of technology and design by introducing software design differentiation and improving the user experience. They also plan to build an ecosystem of devices that work well together and explore possibilities in AI and interdevice connectivity.


In this video, Carl Pei, the founder of Nothing, discusses his experience in building hardware companies, including Nothing and OnePlus. He talks about the challenges of entering the smartphone market dominated by a few major players and the need to differentiate through design and user experience. He also shares his vision for the future of technology and the importance of community in driving innovation.

Questions & Answers

Q: What is the current state of the phone market and why is it difficult for startups to break into it?

The phone market is dominated by a few major players, such as Apple and Samsung, who have accumulated a significant market share over the years. This makes it challenging for startups to compete and gain market traction. Many startups have attempted to enter the market, but most have failed due to the difficulty of penetrating an established industry.

Q: Why did Carl Pei decide to start Nothing and take on the incumbents in the industry?

Carl Pei believes that if he doesn't attempt to challenge the incumbents, no one else will. He wants to bring innovation and excitement back to the tech industry, which he believes has become stagnant and boring. He feels a responsibility to make a difference and create something meaningful in an industry he has been a part of for years.

Q: What are the common reasons for hardware companies, both large and small, to struggle in the market?

One reason is that larger companies often treat hardware as a side hustle, focusing more on their core business. As a result, they may not allocate enough resources or have the same level of rigor in their hardware products. On the other hand, smaller companies may lack the financial resources and market presence to compete effectively. Both face challenges in managing cash flow, supply chain, and maintaining profitability.

Q: How does Nothing approach the problem of breaking into the market and deciding what products to build first?

Nothing takes a phased approach to prove its capabilities and build credibility in the market. They started with audio products, specifically earbuds, as an easier product to enter and differentiate in a fast-growing category. By designing and selling earbuds successfully, they aim to build a track record and convince stakeholders, such as supply chain partners and investors, to support them in developing more complex products like smartphones. They see this stepwise progression as a way to slowly reveal their capabilities and gain confidence before tackling bigger challenges.

Q: How does Nothing differentiate its products in a crowded market, particularly in the case of the earbuds?

Nothing differentiates its products through hardware design, aiming to create a distinct design language that is consistent across its product lineup. They took inspiration from various creative fields and decided to make all their products transparent in some way. This offers a unique and differentiated design compared to other brands in the market. They believe that as a niche player, they have more flexibility to take design risks and stand out, unlike larger companies that often prioritize market share.

Q: What is Nothing's plan for evolving technology and creating a better user experience?

Nothing plans to evolve its technology by focusing on software design differentiation, particularly in terms of user interface and user experience. They believe that software design can strengthen the overall design proposition of their products. Additionally, they aim to innovate in mobile user experience, which has remained largely unchanged for many years. They see opportunities to simplify and improve human-device interactions, potentially leveraging AI in the future to create more meaningful and intuitive experiences.

Q: How does Nothing involve its community and what role does it play in the company's vision?

Nothing focuses on building a community and involving stakeholders beyond just employees. They allow their community to become shareholders in the company and have an elected board observer to provide feedback and keep the company accountable. They aim to erase the distinction between employees and community members, allowing everyone to contribute to building the company and its products. They see their community as a source of innovation and creativity, with community members generating ideas for future product designs and contributing to various aspects of the company's development.

Q: How does Nothing approach marketing and what strategies have they used to generate interest?

Nothing takes a strategic approach to marketing, focusing on finding arbitrage opportunities in the market. They look for areas where they can gain a competitive advantage over larger companies in terms of return on investment. For example, they have experimented with YouTube videos to share behind-the-scenes insights and build hype around their products. They aim to communicate their vision beyond just individual product cycles, similar to how Tesla communicates the impact of their products on the world. They believe that marketing should align with the company's core values and purpose.

Q: What mistakes has Nothing made along the way, and what advice does Carl Pei have for other founders venturing into hardware?

One significant mistake was not introducing enough flexibility in the supply chain, which caused complications in managing cash flow and production delays. They learned the importance of delaying decisions and gathering more data to make informed choices. Carl Pei advises other founders to work at hardware companies first to learn about the intricacies of the industry. He also emphasizes the challenges of managing cash flow and supply chain, particularly for young companies, and the need to build strong relationships with suppliers and stakeholders.

Q: Can hardware be built remotely, and what are the challenges associated with it?

Carl Pei believes that remote work can work for some companies, but for hardware companies, particularly young ones, face-to-face interactions are more efficient in the early stages. Building a strong company culture and relationships within the team is crucial, which is easier to achieve through physical proximity. Additionally, working in creative and strategic fields, such as hardware design, is more challenging in a remote setting. However, he acknowledges that more mature companies and those with repetitive tasks may be better suited for remote work.

Q: What excites Carl Pei about technology today and what makes him optimistic about its future?

Carl Pei finds AI to be particularly exciting, believing that it has vast potential for innovation. He sees opportunities to leverage AI in creating breakthrough products and experiences. While the tech industry faces challenges and distrust from consumers, he remains optimistic about technology's ability to transform and improve various aspects of our lives. He believes that technology can solve problems and bring people together, and he is motivated to contribute to making the future better through his work.

Summary & Key Takeaways

  • Carl Pei, founder of Nothing, talks about the difficulty of breaking into the smartphone market, which is dominated by a few big players.

  • He shares his motivation for starting Nothing and his belief that if he doesn't attempt to take on the incumbents, nobody else will.

  • Pei explains how Nothing differentiated itself through design and the importance of creating a coherent design language across all products.

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